Comic for April 22, 2018: Seeing Double

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Hulk10
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Re: Comic for April 22, 2018: Seeing Double

#61 Post by Hulk10 »

The link that went to the page where Trace told Flora that Keith had told him that Keidran can't commit to any one person at 14 made me feel real sorry for Keith.
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Re: Comic for April 22, 2018: Seeing Double

#62 Post by Technic[Bot] »

amenon wrote: Fri May 04, 2018 6:18 pm
Wobaku wrote: Tue May 01, 2018 12:35 pm I think the prevailing opinion is still that the boat arc (the group A parts of it at least) was a pretty tedious part of the comic at the time, I've even seen people say it killed their interest in the comic for several years.
There's a few different things here:

1) Even if it was tedious at the time (I don't think it ever was for me, but I've certainly seen that feeling expressed), there's a balancing act between 'week to week' and 'overall'. I'd be very surprised if there's any problem with the boat section feeling overlong in a binge read, and since it's over, that's always gonna be how most people who experience it experience it.

1.5) There is the fact that the set got super stale, but I think that's kind of a separate artistic concern.

2) Readers are always going to come and go. (And the fact that you heard from these ones means they probably didn't go very far, at that.)

3) I don't think there's any reason to think Twokinds lost more readers than it gained over that period. I'm pretty sure its popularity has always had an upward trajectory over any significant period of time. ('course, I don't have the metrics or anything, and even if they were solidly trending up there would always be arguments about rate of change. But the basic point is, it certainly looks like there was no harm done.)
1) By the time i found the comic we were way into the lastest chapter. So I managed to read the whole boat section as intended: Over a few weeks not over 2 years. And i found it to be well paced. Never once i wondered: When will they get off this ship? Well not until Flora mentioned it when they arrived at Edinmire.
But as you point out the comic is gonna feel completely different for someone who reads when it is finished, around the 2050's than for someone who reads it now and follows it over several years.

2 & 3) I do have metrics!
Spoiler!
One of my favorite sites all over the internet is google trends, this site reports the "amount of searches" for a any keywords logged since 2004, coincidentally the year Twokinds started. If you have even passing interest in data i recommend you check it out: Google Trends! It is completely free and public.
A neat feature is that you can download the data, so too ease the visualization I grabbed all the info it had sin its inception and made a small graph:
Image
Not sure whats with the forum interface: Have the direct link: Graph

There are two peaks on the graph, one on may 2014. When Natani and Keath finally kissed
And other in June 2013 when Natani was "explaning" herlsef to Kat.
Draw you own conclusions, that what data is for!

A word of caution thought: Google is not as kind as to provide numerical estimates of its searches just because, the data is normalized meaning you wont be seeing number like: 500k searches in this month but it captures the highest volume of searches in a time period and assings that number a 100, the rest of the data is then divided by this maximum. Or if you are mathematically inclined:

Code: Select all

SearchVolume=NumberofSearches/MaxNumberofSearches*100
I was planning to do a more extensive analysis on a separate thread but i haven't got the time. Maybe in June.
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amenon
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Re: Comic for April 22, 2018: Seeing Double

#63 Post by amenon »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:53 am But as you point out the comic is gonna feel completely different for someone who reads when it is finished, around the 2050's
Ah, an optimist!

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:53 am 2 & 3) I do have metrics!
Huh! Well, that's interesting. I'm not sure how much I want to read into this, but it certainly does not support an argument the boat was a problem, since the decline was post-boat.

If this effect is in fact real... perhaps Natani being out of the comic for a long while? He's consistently the most popular character, and the decline in the graph does seem to align with the time he was out. (Early 2015 to mid-2016.) But I'm hesitant to take this data as definitive.
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Re: Comic for April 22, 2018: Seeing Double

#64 Post by Technic[Bot] »

amenon wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 5:41 pm
Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:53 am But as you point out the comic is gonna feel completely different for someone who reads when it is finished, around the 2050's
Ah, an optimist!

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun May 06, 2018 2:53 am 2 & 3) I do have metrics!
Huh! Well, that's interesting. I'm not sure how much I want to read into this, but it certainly does not support an argument the boat was a problem, since the decline was post-boat.

If this effect is in fact real... perhaps Natani being out of the comic for a long while? He's consistently the most popular character, and the decline in the graph does seem to align with the time he was out. (Early 2015 to mid-2016.) But I'm hesitant to take this data as definitive.
Real? Well i did not doctored the data or anything like that. As i said you can visit the Google trends site and type Twokinds on the search bar and play with the data yourself!
I mean yes this is not like actual hit rates from the comic page or anything but it is the best we can get. The only one who has more precise data is Tom himself, as the main page of the comic has Google analytics enabled.
In any case i was planning to do a more thorough analysis myself.
But i really have not got the time now. Maybe in June...
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Re: Comic for April 22, 2018: Seeing Double

#65 Post by amenon »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 4:03 am Real? Well i did not doctored the data or anything like that. As i said you can visit the Google trends site and type Twokinds on the search bar and play with the data yourself!
And I did, yes :grin: I wasn't questioning the dataset, I was questioning the effect in the data.

Technic[Bot] wrote: Mon May 07, 2018 4:03 amI mean yes this is not like actual hit rates from the comic page or anything but it is the best we can get. The only one who has more precise data is Tom himself, as the main page of the comic has Google analytics enabled.
Exactly, yes. I'd have to be an expert on google trends (and google trends trends) to say whether the data actually means what it seems to mean, or if it's some kind of measurement or methodology artifact. (Like, for example, does Microsoft increasingly pushing Bing make a difference to overall trends? Probably not, but who knows. Not me. And they note a methodology change at the start of 2016 -- what effect did that have? I have no idea.)
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Dadrobit
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Re: Comic for April 22, 2018: Seeing Double

#66 Post by Dadrobit »

**Cough cough hack hack**

Finals are done for the semester and I had some time to officially catch up on the forums! :mrgrin:
amenon wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:51 pm
Wobaku wrote: Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:01 am
amenon wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:10 pm Well, there's always the theory that he had sex with King Adelaide and was never the same again. (I think that was Dadrobit's?)
I've heard the same thing before, considered making it a joke about myself actually but it seemed a bit too crude. I would be interested in knowing when that ''theory'' was first posted here, if it's realistic, and compare it to some other discussion of the topic.
It's entirely possible I'm either misattributing or misrepresenting the idea. Dadrobit isn't completely inactive here, I think, so I expect he might eventually chime in.
As far as I am aware, I was the first to bring up a non-eunuch/impotent/asexual alternative for Lynn about two and a half years back. I think I was also the first to see that Lynn is Madelyn's father, but feel free to point out any others before me though! :mrgrin:

Essentially, in TK we've seen that very powerful enchantments can be imbued into regular old pieces of clothing. Like trans-dimensional portals hidden in bandages for use as chest wraps, or LoveMagic™ powerful enough to stop a demi-God hidden in a subtleseed bauble. I therefore hypothesized that it would be possible for the Basitin Government to procure libido suppressing garments for their messengers to wear which would allow for them to engage in their duties without the mutilation.

It would potentially explain all the different baubles he has placed around his head, chest, and feet. Though those could just be purely for decoration. For all we know, the enchantment could be in his tail wrap.

It's also convenient to have something that you can pass on to your successor when it comes time to retire or move into a different field, (so long as they are not lost or destroyed) and have the original user regain their ability to procreate. Lynn has shown himself to be an incredibly adept individual and it would be asinine to permanantly deny him the right to pass himself and potentially some of his traits on while someone like the inept bridge guard gets off Scott-free.

Also, it would allow for women to enter the messenger field far more easily as well which I see as important in this purely meritocratic society which so far shows no gender discrimination in the workforce. Potentially otherwise requiring something akin to a hysterectomy, with their "blindfolded bone saw" medical practices we're talking a surgery that would suck on ~unimaginable~ levels, (heck, castration would suck on unimaginable levels). But a hysterectomy would probably have a mortality rate through the roof. Magical passive nullification has a mortality rate of 0 and allows them to get right to work with no down time to recover.

I have since updated that theory to include the possibility that Lynn is Madelyn's father.

All we know about Madelyn's father is that he was a previous Master General, but I don't think it's too far a stretch to see that someone that is not only incredibly knowledgeable, but is as straight up baller as Lynn is now as an older Basitin, could have absolutely been General material 20 years ago. He retires and/or is bested at some point, (potentially Cornelius?) and stays inside the castle walls as a messenger and bureaucrat, because why waste the wisdom?

Furthermore, between Lynn and Madelyn, we see a great deal of similarities in their penchants for stealth, sleight of hand, and general cohesiveness and rapport between one another. Also the last part of Madelyn's name is Lyn. (but even I will concede that that is a stretch to use as a valid point (still gonna use it though))

And if Lynn is with the King, it would also explain why no one would flirt with "someone like [him]" and why he is "blind to both." First of all, who's gonna waste their time flirting with someone who is completely magically sexually suppressed in a society that barely has any time at all to spend on that kind of thing regardless? Second, who's dumb enough to try and get between The King and her lover? And third, love is a mystical, if not literally magical thing among Basitins, strong enough to override the "mandatory" command impulses inherent to their lives, and powerful enough to make even the second strongest Basitin on the island go a little mad and give up everything he has to try and escape for the sake of his love (General Cornelius).

Lynn is "blind" because through his love, he only has eyes for the king! :mrgrin:
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