Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

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Hulk10
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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#46 Post by Hulk10 »

Yeah we don't even know what its limits are. We don't know if users can only turn into one kind of creature.
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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#47 Post by Eclipse »

Well maybe then part of the deal was that Euchre worked under Sirus instead of Sirus using it himself. Either way, there definitely seems to have been some sort of backroom dealing done to smooth over the incident. It would be an embarrassment for everyone involved if it got out that one of their own was a Keidran spy and the Templar very much would've wanted to use Perfect Transformation for their own purposes, it would've been in everyone's best interests to sweep things under the rug and keep Euchre within the organization.

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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#48 Post by steelabjur »

Hulk10 wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:41 pm How do we know that Evil Trace knew of Raine's birth?
He transformed Mary into a keidran as punishment when he deposed her and put both on the slave market, IIRC. It's how Raine ended up with the anti-magic cuffs that allowed her to stabalize her form, Mary inscribed the runes that powered them. I strongly suspect that EvilTrace didn't know of Euchre's secret or involvement, due to his personality and opinion of Keidran at the time, Mary loved him despite what he did, EvilTrace would have certainly gotten rid of him.
Candycat wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:49 pm
Eclipse wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:28 pm
steelabjur wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:56 pm We know EvilTrace knew the secret behind Raine's birth (if not the father), it's not a stretch to imagine Sirius knew of Euchre's affair with the former Grand Templar. It wouldn't surprise me if Sirius put two and two together and made Euchre buy his silence with the one thing in his arsenal that would interest him the most. We know Sirius is the Templar's Master Spy, what does Euchre know that might be useful for one such as him? True Transformation. That would explain how he disposed of the Strength General so easily (and messily), he transformed into something far more powerful than him (given the whole "than a dragon!" thing that was mentioned when they were introduced, perhaps he decided to put it to the test :P ).
Well that explains one loose end in my theory. I imagine that Sirus would very much love the idea of using Perfect Transformation.
The thing about that scene is that Sirus wasn't using perfect transformation. The Basitin general commented right before he died something along the lines of "Wait, you're not a Basitin... what are you?" And I'd say Sirus just used a powerful spell to kill him, not a dragon transformation, judging by the magic flash we see in the doorway panel.

But also we have no idea how perfect transformation even works or what the possible ramifications are besides "magic" and "a wizard did it". :potatoes:
I always assumed it worked sort of like a werecreature transforming, which would explain the Basitin General said, imagine seeing someone physically transforming into something else, it'd be a bit of a shock.

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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#49 Post by Hulk10 »

Oh right. But didn't we see Mary Silverlock in human form with current Trace?
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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#50 Post by Eclipse »

Hulk10 wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:54 pm Oh right. But didn't we see Mary Silverlock in human form with current Trace?


Neutral turned Mary back into a human in exchange for possessing her to get to Flora

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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#51 Post by Hulk10 »

Eclipse wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:32 pm
Hulk10 wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:54 pm Oh right. But didn't we see Mary Silverlock in human form with current Trace?


Neutral turned Mary back into a human in exchange for possessing her to get to Flora
Oh right I forgot. I didn't really like much of the early parts of the comics.
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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#52 Post by Technic[Bot] »

leinglo wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:36 am The impression I got is that Trace's old identity is not just locked away, it's gone. Shattered. That was implied when Reni read Trace's mind. If there was some kind of lock sealing away a whole other set of memories Reni would've noticed and commented on it. That thing that haunts Trace's mind is more than likely a remnant of the old Trace's black magic infection, with maybe a couple of broken memories or emotions imprinted to it, but not enough to contest Trace's new identity for control, which was formed completely independently of the old one anyway. Trace can still be corrupted again if he can't banish or control that infection, but I very much doubt that the old Trace is capable of coming back. He's dead Jim.
Ephmural/Neutral original plans was to restore Traces memories after breaking up with Flora. Apparently this would keep Good-Old Dark-Trace around while also, somehow galvanizing Flora into becoming some sort of Keidran general and directly oppose Trace, or something like that*. No i do not understand how either.
In any case restoring his mind has been mentioned several times, not only by our favorite mask/god but several templars have stated to intent to restore him to his former self. On the Basitin isles they were plannign to cart him back to the order to restore him to egregious killer.
So yeah i am pretty sure his previous mind is somewhere inside that little blue head of his.

*For what I gather. I don't presume to fully understand Neutrals original plan. That thing was as overly-complicated and convoluted as they come.
Candycat wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:59 am I hope Trace really gets himself in the soup. Really want to know what stance/direction Trace will take knowing the full extent of his past, or at least enough of his past to know what's up. Obviously it won't can't be "guess I'll just disregard this new information and carry on". Finding out something major about one's past is the kind of thing that drives characters into action! Or they develop significantly as characters, or both. Ideally both. Euchre just doesn't want genocidal maniac Trace to come back, and I don't see that happening unless Trace gets overwhelmed by the bit of corruption he's got hanging around. I mean any way you slice it if Trace gets involved with his past, the story will be super interesting at least. More interesting than Trace and co just running away, not that they can anyways, since it seems the past is seeking them out, or Trace at least. I just don't want another boat trip or "group B walking through some more forest and occasionally encountering something".

Also, Sirus sure is a creep. A creep that seems to be like the glue in this story as a whole. Creepy glue. I mean did you see how he unnecessarily murdered the buff Basitin general guy? Not to mention the brutality of it! And then the way he was 'testing' Euchre? Brutal. And he really was the one who was the catalyst for Flora x Trace with the necklace (where did it go?). Other stuff too. Creepy glue.
BadJoke wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:56 am Yeah. Fighting off the ghosts of the past is my favorite type of story. I mean, how are you supposed to go on and don't fall again if you don't acknowledge what you did wrong? (Let alone not remembering it at all.)
It would be also the perfect occasion to see Trace really become an active character. And the antagonists to really get into concerted/serious action we can see. Until now even the basitins' island was a background conflict in comparison of the big war and all, with a massive fog of war above everything (leaving us with enemies barely present: come, makes a superior smile, goes.).

--snip--

Yup. His Smug Snake appearance had me forget how Ax-Crazy he actually was. He may look civil, polite, some sort of superior douchebag, but the moment he can let go the veneer he goers full homicidal sadist. And he clearly gets off doing this.
And that "enemy mine" thing? Even if it's out of necessity and the only option, it's a bad one. The moment anything will topple the equilibrium of the affair, it will end in a hearth-beat. Brutally. And bloodily.
Nothing good can motivate a "thing" like that guy. Euchre is unpleasant and morally dubious, but him? He's a pure monster.
The concensus is that one of the biggest flaws on Trace´s character is his insistence of running away from his past instead of facing it. It would be reasonable if he simply was a refugge feeling the was with his Keidran wife. But he kinda caused the whole mess himself.
So yeah i hope we get to see how Trace confronts his demons and cames out a better man. Also the plot could finally start going somewhere, after 14 years. Instead of the scheduled running away from the war you started.
If the comic was a videogame we would be around 1/4 of the main campaing and 1/8 of the side-quests.

Respecting Sirius.
He is part of Trace's inner circle. That guy was a monster so i am not surprised he allied with the worst in the whole order. Sirius is a sadist and Branh looks like a psyco using his daugther for personal gain. And allywing with woever it takes to futher his plans to take over the order.
Euchre on the othar hand was blackmailed into helping Trace overthow Mary. In exchange for his ex and daugther life. (As told to us by Raine). However it is not clear if Trace knew he was Keidran at the time.
The way I see it Sirius is helping the party simply because it is on his best interest. If Branh manages to assert himself as new Grand Wizard. Sorry templar, His head will roll. Euchre on the other hand might have more noble intentions. Preventing the extermination of his race and wich may or may not include his daugther. So for now their objectives intersect. However he will became a problem after Brahm gets out of the picture.
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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#53 Post by Hulk10 »

I do hope Trace redeems himself.
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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#54 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Hulk10 wrote: Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:06 am I do hope Trace redeems himself.
Don't we all?
It would be a real bummer if he turned out to be a spineles dude who hides behind his amnesia to get away from all the trouble he caused.
Alas i do not expect him to redeem anytime soon. Sometime around the 2030's probably...
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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#55 Post by Hulk10 »

Yeah I assume you mean given the amount of time it takes this strip to develop?
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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#56 Post by Eclipse »

steelabjur wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:41 pm He transformed Mary into a keidran as punishment when he deposed her and put both on the slave market, IIRC. It's how Raine ended up with the anti-magic cuffs that allowed her to stabalize her form, Mary inscribed the runes that powered them. I strongly suspect that EvilTrace didn't know of Euchre's secret or involvement, due to his personality and opinion of Keidran at the time, Mary loved him despite what he did, EvilTrace would have certainly gotten rid of him.
How would Euchre have reached the position of Master Strategist if EvilTrace didn't know about his Perfect Transformation ability? The Master Templars are all high level mages and I don't think EvilTrace would've recruited any of them if they didn't have special abilities. Furthermore, if he knew about Raine, then he could've put two and two together and have figured out, or at least suspected Euchre and investigated further. I doubt they could've kept this from EvilTrace, he probably knew.

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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#57 Post by Hulk10 »

He went a bit too far with turning her into a Keidran. Though I wouldn't mind being one long as I can live a long time.
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In the name of the Mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I shall never again bow to your charge! But, I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking.

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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#58 Post by Warrl »

tony1695 wrote: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:59 pmI doubt both possiblities, if only because we have seen Saria's tombstone earlier.
Just because there's a tombstone doesn't mean that the body of the person named thereon is under it.
Hulk10 wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:12 am Yeah not that that will change Roselyn's feelings towards Euchre.
It's possible to trust and respect someone you intensely dislike.

It's easier to believe you understand the person and their motives and know just how far you can trust them.

Or maybe to generally respect who the person is now but be unable to let go of a personal grudge from something that happened a decade ago.

Either way you may find yourself with a common cause, or different but not-incompatible goals that you can help each other toward.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 pm*For what I gather. I don't presume to fully understand Neutrals original plan. That thing was as overly-complicated and convoluted as they come.
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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#59 Post by Eclipse »

Warrl wrote: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:13 am It's possible to trust and respect someone you intensely dislike.

It's easier to believe you understand the person and their motives and know just how far you can trust them.

Or maybe to generally respect who the person is now but be unable to let go of a personal grudge from something that happened a decade ago.

Either way you may find yourself with a common cause, or different but not-incompatible goals that you can help each other toward.
The problem is that Rose doesn't trust Euchre, it goes beyond just intense dislike. He's shown that he'll let others take the fall to save his own skin, Rose isn't going to want to help him and risk ending up on the gallows again.

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Re: Comic for March 30, 2018: Euchre's Motives

#60 Post by SpottedKitty »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sat Mar 31, 2018 11:59 pm and Branh looks like a psyco using his daugther for personal gain.
I'm not as sure of this as I used to be. For a while now, I've suspected Brahn's daughter (have we ever been given her name?) has an agenda of her own, which might or might not align with her father's at any given moment. Whether or not Brahn knows this is an open question... :wink:
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