Comic for March 24, 2018

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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#61 Post by Dadrobit » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:50 am

Man, I really need to be on here more frequently, these replies kinda piled up here. :mrgrin:
Technic[Bot] wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:06 am
James Polymer wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:44 am
Snip
Snip
It would appear that you have missed the point that I was trying to make.

People lambast Kei and Euchre for individual moments of being a "bad" person, however they then forgive the lifelong racism and the past outright atrocities that Trace committed and continues to commit simply because he has the title of protagonist. Keiren and Euchre do acts of goodness of their own free will, and yet they are constantly held down to their worst moments, while Trace is absolved of all of his sins not because he chose to be good, but because of what essentially amounts to divine intervention that finally kind of stopped him. And even then I emphasize, "kind of" as he has shown his propensity to fall to acts of extreme evil even against fellow humans.

All I'm saying is that there's some Serious hypocrisy going on up in here. :mrgrin:
ZeroJinKui wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:52 am

to be fair, trace wasn't always evil, the fact that he has turned back into such a pure, lovable person proves that.

kei, however, was always the way he is, and always will be.

people saying euchre is selfish, but not kei, makes no sense to me.

i stand by what i said about kei.
Hulk10 wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:05 pm
Its true that Kei is a product of his environment and Trace wasn't always evil. This comic has a wide range of individuals who aren't really evil. There are those who are but most are not.
Where in the world do you even get these ideas of Trace being a good and even a better person from?

While living in a society that fosters racism that Trace Has absolutely demonstrated All of his life, Keiren is one of very few human characters who did not show signs of hard racism as a young person and indeed forged a friendship with a keidran completely of his own volition up through only a year ago. (Other humans include Eric, but he grew up to be an active slave trader so screw him, and possibly Karen but she's 99% comic relief) Even if he temporarily screwed it up, he has not only show remorse for that screw up, but has also actively taken steps to try and make amends for it. Trace has spent a scant few months being "good" and he still falls to terrible evils even after his divine intervention as mentioned above.

And yes, there is Keiren's continued racism towards Wolves. And that racism is 110% justified. Wolves are not kind to humans in Mekkan and are absolutely deserving of their hatred in the current climate. They are the ones who killed Keiren's King. They attacked his town under disguise to try and foster discord among the developing Human/Tiger alliance. They likely have attacked Edinmire prior to this with their rather long list of "Dead and Missing" attached to the town board. They razed several human cities including Wreathwood, a town that was actually welcoming to Keidran, including wolves. And they've demonstrated to the audience that they're willing to kill their own at the slightest inclination of fraternizing with a human. Heck even two of the wolven "protagonists" are just killers for hire!

The wolves aren't being labeled as "evil" just because of a few bad apples, the whole dang orchard is rotten and it's lucky that even a single bushel is actually palatable.
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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#62 Post by Hulk10 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:23 pm

Dadrobit wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:50 am
Man, I really need to be on here more frequently, these replies kinda piled up here. :mrgrin:
Technic[Bot] wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:06 am
James Polymer wrote:
Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:44 am
Snip
Snip
It would appear that you have missed the point that I was trying to make.

People lambast Kei and Euchre for individual moments of being a "bad" person, however they then forgive the lifelong racism and the past outright atrocities that Trace committed and continues to commit simply because he has the title of protagonist. Keiren and Euchre do acts of goodness of their own free will, and yet they are constantly held down to their worst moments, while Trace is absolved of all of his sins not because he chose to be good, but because of what essentially amounts to divine intervention that finally kind of stopped him. And even then I emphasize, "kind of" as he has shown his propensity to fall to acts of extreme evil even against fellow humans.

All I'm saying is that there's some Serious hypocrisy going on up in here. :mrgrin:
ZeroJinKui wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:52 am

to be fair, trace wasn't always evil, the fact that he has turned back into such a pure, lovable person proves that.

kei, however, was always the way he is, and always will be.

people saying euchre is selfish, but not kei, makes no sense to me.

i stand by what i said about kei.
Hulk10 wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:05 pm
Its true that Kei is a product of his environment and Trace wasn't always evil. This comic has a wide range of individuals who aren't really evil. There are those who are but most are not.
Where in the world do you even get these ideas of Trace being a good and even a better person from?

While living in a society that fosters racism that Trace Has absolutely demonstrated All of his life, Keiren is one of very few human characters who did not show signs of hard racism as a young person and indeed forged a friendship with a keidran completely of his own volition up through only a year ago. (Other humans include Eric, but he grew up to be an active slave trader so screw him, and possibly Karen but she's 99% comic relief) Even if he temporarily screwed it up, he has not only show remorse for that screw up, but has also actively taken steps to try and make amends for it. Trace has spent a scant few months being "good" and he still falls to terrible evils even after his divine intervention as mentioned above.

And yes, there is Keiren's continued racism towards Wolves. And that racism is 110% justified. Wolves are not kind to humans in Mekkan and are absolutely deserving of their hatred in the current climate. They are the ones who killed Keiren's King. They attacked his town under disguise to try and foster discord among the developing Human/Tiger alliance. They likely have attacked Edinmire prior to this with their rather long list of "Dead and Missing" attached to the town board. They razed several human cities including Wreathwood, a town that was actually welcoming to Keidran, including wolves. And they've demonstrated to the audience that they're willing to kill their own at the slightest inclination of fraternizing with a human. Heck even two of the wolven "protagonists" are just killers for hire!

The wolves aren't being labeled as "evil" just because of a few bad apples, the whole dang orchard is rotten and it's lucky that even a single bushel is actually palatable.
I never said that Trace was a good person to begin with sir.......... :x You need to stop putting words in my mouth. He now does good for the sake of it but he was only truly evil after his screw up with necromancy. And since his introduction after his amnesia he has become a better person than he was as Evil Trace. Without the trauma and memories he is a good person whether you like it or not. He no longer demonstrates racism as he has no memory of it. I view this current Trace as Trace as he should have been. Don't you remember when he willingly helped Keith and Flora and protected Adira? Also there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL for racism. Distrust yes but racism, no way. Trace has also shown remorse so don't say he didn't. Also sure he killed Templar children but I don't think there was any way to avoid that when busting himself out. Those Templar children were unfortunate collateral damage.

Trace isn't perfect but he wasn't evil until the black mana made him evil. He was flawed but not evil. Like Albus Dumbledore and Severus Snape, neither of those men were necessarily what many would call good people but both did much to try and repent. Dumbledore accepted only the power of a headmaster and was very generous with student digressions and Snape did his best to keep Harry alive. Trace's saving Adira is in a sense repenting whether you choose to it that way or not. I have no love for evil Trace but current Trace is not a horrible individual no matter what others may tell themselves. In a sense Evil Trace and Current Trace are a lot like Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader, two different people inhabiting the same body. I respect the current Trace but not the evil one there is a difference.
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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#63 Post by ZeroJinKui » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:21 pm

Dadrobit wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:50 am
snip
i don't care that trace is the protagonist, that is not why i forgive him.

i've hated plenty of protagonists, no matter how good they are.

i just relate more to trace, he deals with an evil he can not control, but the trace being dominated by it, is a genuinely good and caring person who fights against that evil every day.

the thing here is, you're holding something against a person who was seemingly dominated against his will by a great hatred that twisted him.

all while defending people who WILLINGLY behaved the ways they did, and honestly still continue to be jerks.

i will never forgive kei, that is final.
"What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" - Paarthurnax

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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#64 Post by Hulk10 » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:38 pm

ZeroJinKui wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:21 pm
Dadrobit wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:50 am
snip
i don't care that trace is the protagonist, that is not why i forgive him.

i've hated plenty of protagonists, no matter how good they are.

i just relate more to trace, he deals with an evil he can not control, but the trace being dominated by it, is a genuinely good and caring person who fights against that evil every day.

the thing here is, you're holding something against a person who was seemingly dominated against his will by a great hatred that twisted him.

all while defending people who WILLINGLY behaved the ways they did, and honestly still continue to be jerks.

i will never forgive kei, that is final.
Good points.
Hulk is strongest one there is -Incredible Hulk

In the name of the Mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I shall never again bow to your charge! But, I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking.

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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#65 Post by Ddraig » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:27 am

ZeroJinKui wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:21 pm
Dadrobit wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:50 am
snip
i don't care that trace is the protagonist, that is not why i forgive him.

i've hated plenty of protagonists, no matter how good they are.

i just relate more to trace, he deals with an evil he can not control, but the trace being dominated by it, is a genuinely good and caring person who fights against that evil every day.

the thing here is, you're holding something against a person who was seemingly dominated against his will by a great hatred that twisted him.
In the words of Mr. Olmos, you are what you eat, you are what you think, and you are what you do. Trace - as a whole - is not a good person. He does have the potential to be a good person, if he can keep the effects of his past dark mana usage from influencing his actions, which he has - recently, at least - been successful at. ('recently' being the past two? months in-story)
When he isn't on a Dark Mana Extravaganza, he's a rather nice guy. And then he goes on killing sprees. Unfortunately for him, "only" murdering a couple people every couple months isn't canceled out by being nice. Or, really, anything. No more than a raging alcoholic who kills someone while on a bender, even if "That wasn't him, that was the alcohol".
all while defending people who WILLINGLY behaved the ways they did, and honestly still continue to be jerks.

i will never forgive kei, that is final.
I don't think I'll ever understand your hatred for someone acting like an older brother while also doing their job. People have to be judged in the context of their respective societies; Kei is a fairly good example for his society - he's considerably less racist than the majority of those he interacts with and the societal rules he falls under (and some of which has to enforce) - while I can't think of a single society where outright murder was considered acceptable. (sure, there are some where killing, in specific circumstances, is considered acceptable, but there is always a justification established beforehand, e.g. punishment for something)
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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#66 Post by Hulk10 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:03 am

Seems neither of you will ever agree on Trace and Kei. But regardless of your point of view, Kei is still a morally questionable person for succumbing to peer pressure. Being a product of your environment is no excuse for holding slaves. So is Trace though for his past crimes. He should find a way to make things right but we also need to remember that the evil Trace was in a sense insane and that could be seen as a way for redemption.
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In the name of the Mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I shall never again bow to your charge! But, I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking.

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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#67 Post by ZeroJinKui » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:36 pm

Ddraig wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:27 am
snip
"you are what you eat"... ah, so even if someone is possessed by something and they're forced to do something against their will, they are still an evil person?

you like victim-blaming, don't you?

you also seem very blind to the kind of person kei is, but whatever... there is obviously no getting through to someone who blames victims for the suffering they endure. :redhair:
"What is better - to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" - Paarthurnax

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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#68 Post by Hulk10 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:11 am

ZeroJinKui wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:36 pm
Ddraig wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:27 am
snip
"you are what you eat"... ah, so even if someone is possessed by something and they're forced to do something against their will, they are still an evil person?

you like victim-blaming, don't you?

you also seem very blind to the kind of person kei is, but whatever... there is obviously no getting through to someone who blames victims for the suffering they endure. :redhair:
We all have our opinions and if they are educated ones they need to be respected.
Hulk is strongest one there is -Incredible Hulk

In the name of the Mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I shall never again bow to your charge! But, I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking.

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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#69 Post by Ddraig » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:35 pm

ZeroJinKui wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:36 pm
Ddraig wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:27 am
snip
"you are what you eat"... ah, so even if someone is possessed by something and they're forced to do something against their will, they are still an evil person?

you like victim-blaming, don't you?

you also seem very blind to the kind of person kei is, but whatever... there is obviously no getting through to someone who blames victims for the suffering they endure. :redhair:
Possessed? Trace chose to use dark mana and it changed him, it gave Trace a part of himself that was far darker and more malevolent than he had been before. It's represented in the comic by Mr. Shadow, but it's still Trace doing all that, not some Mask possessing him. Mr. Shadow is temptation, not some external entity. Trace wasn't being forced to do something against his will, he was just giving in to his darkest desires - falling back on old habits that apparently survived his amnesia to linger in the primal corners of his mind.
Victim-blaming? Trace was and is no more the victim of that than a raging alcoholic is a victim of alcohol when they beat someone to death. Trace just does it on a much grander scale.
And seriously, a personal attack? You can't actually justify your view of Kei, so that is what you resort to?
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Re: Comic for March 24, 2018

#70 Post by Hulk10 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:22 pm

Oh boy........... This is not going to end well..............
Hulk is strongest one there is -Incredible Hulk

In the name of the Mighty Legions of Predacons who preceded me I shall never again bow to your charge! But, I will heed your previous advice and face my true enemy AS A BEAST! -Predaking.

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