Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#16 Post by steelabjur » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 pm

SomeBody wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:14 pm
On a completely different topic...

Why on earth are they still going for... whatever that place's name was? They kinda have a stronghold right here. Trace OWNS this town, and people are, by all appearances, loyal to him. The people who hate him will hate him wherever he is, and anywhere else he has absolutely no resources to protect himself, his wife, and his friends. Heck, the manor alone is probably worth its weight in gold for the magical defense it provides him.

If you want an integrated society, he has the foundation to MAKE one right where he is. Why chase legends?
Because the other place has the advantage of distance from Human lands. If Trace and co. try to setup in town here, word that Grand Templar Trace Legacy has set up shop would get out and they'd have the Templar hammering down the gate in weeks (half wanting to drag him back to his old life and the other half wanting him dead), along with Wolf raiders because of the war, and maybe even trouble with the Tiger tribals along their border because of who Trace is.

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#17 Post by SomeBody » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:06 pm

Yeah, but how does that change anything? It's farther away, but the people who want The Grand Templar dead are hardly going to be dissuaded by that. Especially when most of them have pretty powerful magic at their disposal. We can see that if you've got magic, distance isn't a big deal.

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#18 Post by Foxx Trotter » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:50 pm

Well...that's a quick way back. |D
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#19 Post by MuonNeutrino » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:22 am

SomeBody wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:06 pm
Yeah, but how does that change anything? It's farther away, but the people who want The Grand Templar dead are hardly going to be dissuaded by that. Especially when most of them have pretty powerful magic at their disposal. We can see that if you've got magic, distance isn't a big deal.
Distance by itself might not be a big deal, but being hidden could be. The templar apparently don't know where Lyn'knoll is. If Trace & company stay in Edinmire, they're easy to find. If they can get away to Lyn'knoll, it might not matter what magic the Templar have if they don't know where to use it. Of course, that assumes that they really *don't* know where Lyn'knoll is, which might not be guaranteed given the sort of machiavellian maneuvering and plotting everyone seems to be engaged in.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#20 Post by Cpt.Obvious » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:36 am

SomeBody wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:06 pm
Yeah, but how does that change anything? It's farther away, but the people who want The Grand Templar dead are hardly going to be dissuaded by that. Especially when most of them have pretty powerful magic at their disposal. We can see that if you've got magic, distance isn't a big deal.
It all depends on why they want him dead. If it's for revenge then they may hunt him no matter how far they have to go, but if it's because they want to make sure he doesn't get back in the political game then just having him flee the human lands is enough to keep them from bother. However, if they would try to stay in his mansion then those who seek revenge would know exactly where he is, and he would remain a threat to the current leadership of the Templar organization.

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#21 Post by James Polymer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:18 am

steelabjur wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 pm

Because the other place has the advantage of distance from Human lands. If Trace and co. try to setup in town here, word that Grand Templar Trace Legacy has set up shop would get out and they'd have the Templar hammering down the gate in weeks (half wanting to drag him back to his old life and the other half wanting him dead), along with Wolf raiders because of the war, and maybe even trouble with the Tiger tribals along their border because of who Trace is.
The problem is to everyone besides the main cast he's Trace Legacy: Genocidal Tyrant and Keidran Murderer ExtraordinaireTM. How many of Lynn'Knoll's current residents fled there specifically to get away from him, or had family members killed in his purges? If he suddenly showed up they would probably form a lynch mob, which would trigger Evil Trace in a place chock full of keidran. Not to mention Seer Brahm's daughter is keeping tabs on him via her familiars; without Nora around to protect it, traveling to Lynn'Knoll would expose its location. Even if they somehow managed to sneak in and live under the radar, the Templar will keep searching for the town, all the while enslaving and/or wiping out keidran on the mainland with impunity.

As much as I like Trace as a character, the current state of the world--the Templar as an order of militant extremists, the war between humans and keidran, and the attempted destruction of basitin society--is his doing. (True, he wasn't in his right mind at the time, but that was only because he delved into forbidden arts following the tragic death of his wife.) I don't think the rest of the world will let him just cut and run.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#22 Post by aitaituo » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:34 am

SomeBody wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:14 pm
There's nothing ex-machina about a dragon being able to fly you somewhere. Her showing up wasn't ex-machina, because she showed up long before it was actually meaningful for the group. She's powerful, but that is't automatically an deus ex machina.

Her pulling out the gate key though... that's a storytelling fail. As you say, it basically justifies her having whatever macguffin is handy at the moment.
I dunno. A deus ex machina isn't an inherently bad plot device. The alternative is they walk back to the manor, which is not a considerable distance and could easily happen off screen with a "half a day later" narration. Does the gate anticlimactically resolve some crisis? Zen wasn't in mortal danger at any point.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#23 Post by Dadrobit » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:43 am

SomeBody wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:14 pm
There's nothing ex-machina about a dragon being able to fly you somewhere. Her showing up wasn't ex-machina, because she showed up long before it was actually meaningful for the group. She's powerful, but that is't automatically an deus ex machina.
The flying is the least of my concerns. She's been pulling OP moves since her first appearance.

-Sera, (who had previously shown incredible resilience prior to Reni appearing) straight up fainted from excitement just from her presence.
-She doesn't know much magic, but she just so happened to know how to use blink teleports and saved the day blink smashing the wolf assassin into the ground and furthermore was able to "make sure" he survived.
-She can't speak the keidran language to the point of "all I hear is sounds", but just so happened to be able to pick out Clovis's same.
-She has incredibly Convenient Saddlebags of Holding that in addition to being able to be as big as she needs them when it's needed, reduces the weight of whatever it's holding, and also holds whatever she needs as she needs it. (Alluding to the key "macguffin")

Literally every section where she has been in the conversation, she's been carrying the story through perfectly convenient powers, uncanny abilities, or tools.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#24 Post by tony1695 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:03 am

Dadrobit wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:43 am
SomeBody wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:14 pm
There's nothing ex-machina about a dragon being able to fly you somewhere. Her showing up wasn't ex-machina, because she showed up long before it was actually meaningful for the group. She's powerful, but that is't automatically an deus ex machina.
The flying is the least of my concerns. She's been pulling OP moves since her first appearance.

-Sera, (who had previously shown incredible resilience prior to Reni appearing) straight up fainted from excitement just from her presence.
-She doesn't know much magic, but she just so happened to know how to use blink teleports and saved the day blink smashing the wolf assassin into the ground and furthermore was able to "make sure" he survived.
-She can't speak the keidran language to the point of "all I hear is sounds", but just so happened to be able to pick out Clovis's same.
-She has incredibly Convenient Saddlebags of Holding that in addition to being able to be as big as she needs them when it's needed, reduces the weight of whatever it's holding, and also holds whatever she needs as she needs it. (Alluding to the key "macguffin")

Literally every section where she has been in the conversation, she's been carrying the story through perfectly convenient powers, uncanny abilities, or tools.
Which might very well be the point. She's too good to be true.
But it might not even be conscious on her part. Maybe she's being influenced. After all, having an unsuspecting agent in the returned Former Grand Templar's inner circle is invaluable. And the best kind of spy would be one that doesn't know they're a spy themselves. Whoever's pulling the strings likely didn't anticipate such a situation, but is moving quick enough to capitalise on the opportunity.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#25 Post by Technic[Bot] » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:28 am

I had always discarded the theory of Roselyn being a ghost/spirit as ourselves having an overactive imagination. I simply considered her being Trace's version of Lynn. A loyal servant, not necessarily to Trace maybe to the late Saria, who keeps the state from falling apart, with an uncanny skill to appear whenever she is needed, her longevity mostly due from a magical helping hand from Trace or Euchre, on one case she reminds her of her late wife, in the other they are family. But that line...
Roselyn wrote:It’s… been a long time since I’ve seen it open… Seen… the outside…
She hasn't seen the outside? A seneschal probably needs to run a few errands to town, specially considering the size of that place. Moreover her master has been long dead, Trace has been gone from the place long enough. She could have escaped long ago with minimal resistance if any. So maybe good ol' Trace bound her to eternal servitude to him in the state.
Which is as horrible as it sounds but he has done worse...

Hope she simply means the outside as "the countryside" not as in "anywhere outside these walls"
James Polymer wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:18 am
steelabjur wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 pm

Because the other place has the advantage of distance from Human lands. If Trace and co. try to setup in town here, word that Grand Templar Trace Legacy has set up shop would get out and they'd have the Templar hammering down the gate in weeks (half wanting to drag him back to his old life and the other half wanting him dead), along with Wolf raiders because of the war, and maybe even trouble with the Tiger tribals along their border because of who Trace is.
The problem is to everyone besides the main cast he's Trace Legacy: Genocidal Tyrant and Keidran Murderer ExtraordinaireTM. How many of Lynn'Knoll's current residents fled there specifically to get away from him, or had family members killed in his purges? If he suddenly showed up they would probably try lynching him on sight, which would trigger Evil Trace in a place chock full of keidran. Not to mention Seer Brahm's daughter is keeping tabs on him via her familiars; without Nora around to protect it, traveling to Lynn'Knoll would expose its location. Even if they somehow managed to sneak in and live under the radar, the Templar will keep searching for the town, all the while enslaving and/or wiping out keidran on the mainland with impunity.

This is going to sound very heartless toward Trace, but the current state of the world--the Templar as an order of militant extremists, the war between humans and keidran, and the attempted destruction of basitin society--is his doing. (True, he wasn't in his right mind at the time, but that was only because he delved into forbidden arts following the tragic death of his wife.) As much as he might want to just walk away, it's very unlikely the rest of the world will allow that.
I once, not so long ago, made that point. Beside Even if Trace is not killed on the gates of Lynn'Knoll, no one would believe his story:
The local genocidal racist tyrant wanting to retire to the only place where all species co-exist peacefully, same place he put a bounty on and he is expecting a child with a tiger Keidran? Yeah right, like that is possible.
And as you pointed out he is being followed. So we can expect that when he finally reaches the place, "[censored]" is gonna hit the fan.
In any case that would be a strong incentive for Trace to try to fix all the damage he has caused instead of simply running away from his past
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#26 Post by SomeBody » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:50 am

Dadrobit wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:43 am
SomeBody wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:14 pm
There's nothing ex-machina about a dragon being able to fly you somewhere. Her showing up wasn't ex-machina, because she showed up long before it was actually meaningful for the group. She's powerful, but that is't automatically an deus ex machina.
The flying is the least of my concerns. She's been pulling OP moves since her first appearance.

-Sera, (who had previously shown incredible resilience prior to Reni appearing) straight up fainted from excitement just from her presence.
-She doesn't know much magic, but she just so happened to know how to use blink teleports and saved the day blink smashing the wolf assassin into the ground and furthermore was able to "make sure" he survived.
-She can't speak the keidran language to the point of "all I hear is sounds", but just so happened to be able to pick out Clovis's same.
-She has incredibly Convenient Saddlebags of Holding that in addition to being able to be as big as she needs them when it's needed, reduces the weight of whatever it's holding, and also holds whatever she needs as she needs it. (Alluding to the key "macguffin")

Literally every section where she has been in the conversation, she's been carrying the story through perfectly convenient powers, uncanny abilities, or tools.
- She fainted? Preeeety sure that was a sleep spell.

- We don't know if that was a teleport, an illusion, or even just an oddly drawn dash forward.

- Being able to carefully hit somebody without killing them is unrealistic but everywhere in fiction.

- Names are normally pretty easy to pick out of conversation, as anybody who's watched dubbed TV can tell you.

- Natani has a bra of holding that she made herself. That "The Royal Dragon" has a bag of holding is not exactly unbelievable.

- The telepathy is established canon with dragons.

The magic Reni herself has displayed is Zen/Natani level. The "doesn't know much magic," thing was in a conversation about Dragon magic - when they're basically magic godlings. She's been driving the plot, sure - but the plot is OFTEN driven by one character or another for a while. The things Reni has done have - for the most part - been just 'dragony' things.

Being told that her saddlebags are full of unspecified "magic artifacts" is not good. The rest is fine.

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#27 Post by Panther » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:26 am

Does this means Rose has never been allowed to leave the mansion since she's been caught and enslaved ? I feel sorry for her , now (;_;)
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#28 Post by Dadrobit » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:58 am

SomeBody wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:50 am

- She fainted? Preeeety sure that was a sleep spell.
Mmmm, indeed you are correct, another spell that she conveniently knows.
SomeBody wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:50 am
- We don't know if that was a teleport, an illusion, or even just an oddly drawn dash forward.
Blink teleport, confirmed by Tom when he was drawing it.
SomeBody wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:50 am
- Being able to carefully hit somebody without killing them is unrealistic but everywhere in fiction.
Carefully hitting someone, and hitting someone with enough force to knock out boulder sized chunks of the stone wall they're standing on as well are two different things methinks.
SomeBody wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:50 am
- Names are normally pretty easy to pick out of conversation, as anybody who's watched dubbed TV can tell you.
It's easy when you have the dubs and know the characters and have context. Listening in to conversations from people you have no idea who they are in a language that has completely different roots from your own and just sounds like sounds is another beast. Clovis would have been just another word alongside plenty of other common words and countless determiners/quantifiers/pronouns.
SomeBody wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:50 am
- Natani has a bra of holding that she made herself. That "The Royal Dragon" has a bag of holding is not exactly unbelievable.
Not unbelievable, but still overly convenient in its application.
SomeBody wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:50 am
- The telepathy is established canon with dragons.
Never picked on the telepathy I don't think, that is just something that's established.
SomeBody wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:50 am
The magic Reni herself has displayed is Zen/Natani level. The "doesn't know much magic," thing was in a conversation about Dragon magic - when they're basically magic godlings. She's been driving the plot, sure - but the plot is OFTEN driven by one character or another for a while. The things Reni has done have - for the most part - been just 'dragony' things.
That's a good part of the problem. Nora was removed because "dragony things" are OP and they remove any sense of urgency or apprehension. It causes a situation where we the audience knows that that nothing bad is going to happen because Nora/Reni will just do random magic as needed chalking it up to dragony things and everything will be okay.

Driving the plot is fine.

Driving the plot with autopilot in the HOV, not so much.
SomeBody wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:50 am
Being told that her saddlebags are full of unspecified "magic artifacts" is not good. The rest is fine.
Aye. Mix it in with dragony things and Nora 2.0 is go.
tony1695 wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:03 am

Which might very well be the point. She's too good to be true.
But it might not even be conscious on her part. Maybe she's being influenced. After all, having an unsuspecting agent in the returned Former Grand Templar's inner circle is invaluable. And the best kind of spy would be one that doesn't know they're a spy themselves. Whoever's pulling the strings likely didn't anticipate such a situation, but is moving quick enough to capitalise on the opportunity.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#29 Post by Ddraig » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:33 am

Technic[Bot] wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:28 am
I had always discarded the theory of Roselyn being a ghost/spirit as ourselves having an overactive imagination. I simply considered her being Trace's version of Lynn. A loyal servant, not necessarily to Trace maybe to the late Saria, who keeps the state from falling apart, with an uncanny skill to appear whenever she is needed, her longevity mostly due from a magical helping hand from Trace or Euchre, on one case she reminds her of her late wife, in the other they are family. But that line...
Roselyn wrote:It’s… been a long time since I’ve seen it open… Seen… the outside…
She hasn't seen the outside? A seneschal probably needs to run a few errands to town, specially considering the size of that place. Moreover her master has been long dead, Trace has been gone from the place long enough. She could have escaped long ago with minimal resistance if any. So maybe good ol' Trace bound her to eternal servitude to him in the state.
Which is as horrible as it sounds but he has done worse...

Hope she simply means the outside as "the countryside" not as in "anywhere outside these walls"
So I haven't really thought about it until a moment ago, but isn't it a tiny bit odd that Rose just happens to be right there waiting to greet them as soon as the gate is opened? She opened the front door earlier right away, too, but that's easily explainable as just minding the front door as part of being Trace's seneschal. That she can mind the front door and manage to be right there waiting at the 'back door', as she termed it, seems odd. I was rather against the ghost theory until noticing that, but now? Maybe not so far fetched as I thought.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#30 Post by Cosmacelf » Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 am

I think y’all are being too harsh on Tom’s story writing. It continues to be an entertaining story with characters that are believable and emotionally engaging. This current Internet trend where everyone’s a douchbag critic is getting out of hand. Can’t we discuss the story and artwork without criticizing it?

On that note, Rose’s comment is heartbreaking. Sounds like she’s been confined to the house for ages and is more than a little stir crazy.

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