Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

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tony1695
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#31 Post by tony1695 »

Dadrobit wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:58 am
tony1695 wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:03 am
Which might very well be the point. She's too good to be true.
But it might not even be conscious on her part. Maybe she's being influenced. After all, having an unsuspecting agent in the returned Former Grand Templar's inner circle is invaluable. And the best kind of spy would be one that doesn't know they're a spy themselves. Whoever's pulling the strings likely didn't anticipate such a situation, but is moving quick enough to capitalise on the opportunity.
Doubt it in a very extreme way, but if it comes to pass, I'll bake you a cookie. :mrgrin:
That's the fun with the crackpot theories, wrong or right they're entertaining at the very least.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#32 Post by AndreRhineDavis »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:28 am
Roselyn wrote:It’s… been a long time since I’ve seen it open… Seen… the outside…
She hasn't seen the outside? A seneschal probably needs to run a few errands to town, specially considering the size of that place. Moreover her master has been long dead, Trace has been gone from the place long enough. She could have escaped long ago with minimal resistance if any. So maybe good ol' Trace bound her to eternal servitude to him in the state.
Which is as horrible as it sounds but he has done worse...

Hope she simply means the outside as "the countryside" not as in "anywhere outside these walls"
I have two questions:
1) Is Rose the only servant on Trace's estate? It appears that that's the case, but Trace's manor is huge, and there must be so many duties to attend to. Cleaning, cooking, gardening, etc. I would expect an estate of this size to have dozens of servants. It's weird that it's just her.
2) If that is indeed the case, and she is bound to the estate, how does she get new food and supplies and stuff? Maybe she has a magic device that allows her to contact various people in the town and ask that they deliver food and supplies to the estate.

But yeah, when I first heard the theory that Rose is a ghost or something, I didn't believe it. But now that I think about it, we know that after Saria died, Trace dabbled in magic to bring back life and restore life. What if when Rose was at the end of her natural life, since Trace wouldn't want to lose this last living connection to Saria, Trace used this life-extending magic to basically keep her "existing" but not truly "alive". More as this spirit that doesn't eat, doesn't sleep, doesn't age, and is eternally bound to the estate?

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#33 Post by SomeBody »

Cosmacelf wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 am I think y’all are being too harsh on Tom’s story writing. It continues to be an entertaining story with characters that are believable and emotionally engaging. This current Internet trend where everyone’s a douchbag critic is getting out of hand. Can’t we discuss the story and artwork without criticizing it?

I like TK, and I'll be (and have been) the first to defend Tom from people [censored] about how successful he's been. He's worked hard, he's grown as an artist, I'm happy for him. But nobody gets to exempt themselves from critical evaluation. I'm not being a dick about it, but I won't gloss it over, either.


<Tangent>
Beyond tom, this is a problem in the webcomics industry as a whole. I tend to blame it on the few stories a webcomic creator will ever write. A novelist will write dozens, or even hundreds of books over their career. Webcomic artists will do one, two, maybe three full "stories." They just don't tend to get the same storytelling mileage, and they're always depending on things they set up when they least understood the art.
</Tangent>

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#34 Post by Dadrobit »

SomeBody wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:37 pm
Cosmacelf wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 am I think y’all are being too harsh on Tom’s story writing. It continues to be an entertaining story with characters that are believable and emotionally engaging. This current Internet trend where everyone’s a douchbag critic is getting out of hand. Can’t we discuss the story and artwork without criticizing it?

I like TK, and I'll be (and have been) the first to defend Tom from people [censored] about how successful he's been. He's worked hard, he's grown as an artist, I'm happy for him. But nobody gets to exempt themselves from critical evaluation. I'm not being a dick about it, but I won't gloss it over, either.
Aye.

First of all, the internet has nothing to do with criticism and it's not a recent trend. For as long there have been two people engaging with each other, one of them didn't like what the other was doing. :mrgrin:

And second, I don't think I'm being a douchebag asking for plot development that doesn't involve hidden tools or abilities that only pop up at the last second when they're needed and work just in the nick of time to save the day, time after time. It's just boring.

I've been with TwoKinds for nearly a decade now, (early 09) and it really hurts to see Tom continue to commit the same mistakes over again. Nora got canned back when there was still tangible danger left in the story, but now we have Reni coming in with OP tools when Tom has in recent years built up general use plot armor so thick that not even a squirrel or the bad guys can be killed? Where's the believability or engagement in that?
SomeBody wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:37 pm<Tangent>
Beyond tom, this is a problem in the webcomics industry as a whole. I tend to blame it on the few stories a webcomic creator will ever write. A novelist will write dozens, or even hundreds of books over their career. Webcomic artists will do one, two, maybe three full "stories." They just don't tend to get the same storytelling mileage, and they're always depending on things they set up when they least understood the art.
</Tangent>
Agreed. Rare is the comic artist that starts out strong and is able to make good use of their introductory years long into development of later story arcs. Tom unfortunately is not one of them.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#35 Post by BadFoMo »

Too lazy to quote everything related to Reni possibly falling into the same rut that Nora's character did.

I'm torn. While when you put it like that, I'm inclined to agree; but at the same time I think I can live with her doing a few of these things. Yes, she's only 20 years old, but I think you're bound to have picked up a few tools and tricks when you're that old.

Also, when was it said that her satchels could reduce the weight of what was in them?

tony1695 wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:26 am
Dadrobit wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:58 am
tony1695 wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:03 amWhich might very well be the point. She's too good to be true.
But it might not even be conscious on her part. Maybe she's being influenced. After all, having an unsuspecting agent in the returned Former Grand Templar's inner circle is invaluable. And the best kind of spy would be one that doesn't know they're a spy themselves. Whoever's pulling the strings likely didn't anticipate such a situation, but is moving quick enough to capitalise on the opportunity.
Doubt it in a very extreme way, but if it comes to pass, I'll bake you a cookie. :mrgrin:
That's the fun with the crackpot theories, wrong or right they're entertaining at the very least.
Oh, I love this theory! Would like a little more if she was consciously working for someone else, but I like the idea of it.

On a slightly related note, I think this might be what kept Mrs. Nibbly alive.


Once again, too lazy to quote everything relating to Roselyn.

I have two theories.

A; she's normal.
While it can't explain how she was able to stand at the door just as it was opening, her claiming she hasn't seen the outside in such a long time could be chalked up to pseudo-imprisonment (due to being in a village inhabited by Humans who are generally not fond of Keidran) potentially causing a core phobia.

B; she is indeed bound to the estate.
I will admit, this is just Fan Fiction level speculation, but while she's not a ghost, that's not the real Roselyn. The real one is being kept in suspended animation on the third floor with the rest of the mansion's inner workings. What we're seeing (and with which they are interacting) is simply a mental projection which can to anywhere on the estate where she's needed.

Cosmacelf wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 6:59 amI think y’all are being too harsh on Tom’s story writing. It continues to be an entertaining story with characters that are believable and emotionally engaging. This current Internet trend where everyone’s a douchbag critic is getting out of hand. Can’t we discuss the story and artwork without criticizing it?
I'm sorry, but I need to be a jerk. Here is my response.
Please don't take it too harshly.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#36 Post by amenon »

MuonNeutrino wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:31 pm It's the only way I could think of for her to just suddenly be there the instant the gate opened - I mean, I doubt she just happened to be hanging out down in the garden right at that particular moment, she ought to have seneschal things to be doing.

Well, the last we saw he she was going to check the fields, and that could conceivably be related.

Dadrobit wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:52 pm Nora was effectively removed from the comic because Tom worried that she was just too powerful a tool for the party.
Citation needed.

SomeBody wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:14 pm There's nothing ex-machina about a dragon being able to fly you somewhere. Her showing up wasn't ex-machina, because she showed up long before it was actually meaningful for the group. She's powerful, but that is't automatically an deus ex machina.

Her pulling out the gate key though... that's a storytelling fail. As you say, it basically justifies her having whatever macguffin is handy at the moment.
No, that's irrelevant too, for the precise reason that there already existed a solution to this puzzle; simply teleporting back, as was generally speculated here. Yes, the estate is interdicted. So you just teleport as close as you can get, which judging by the force-field here is quite close enough to make no practical difference. I don't think the distance would be larger than the distance Natani teleported Zen back in the day, and since it's clearly possible to teleport someone without going with, Natani could have taken his time with it if needed. It's a less flashy busywork solution, but given what we know it checks out.

Reni's role here was purely conveyance from point A to point B, and then providing conveyance from B back to A. Absent time pressure and strict rules on transportation time and costs and whatnot, it's an irrelevance. I think the methods chosen were a dragon ride and a magic portal simply because this is an adventure story, and those are really cool setpieces to have.

The gate key is a storytelling fail though, just for different reasons. Namely, establishing this kind of open-portal transportation magic even further breaks everything about the world that teleportation already broke, because it changes everything about, oh, such small things as trade, travel, and warfare. Why are there cargo ships in a world with this kind of tech? What does it mean for warfare that an army doesn't need to worry about supply lines? Or indeed, that a small scouting party can get an army into position wherever, just by sneaking there and popping a portal? Can you figure that out to a degree where someone won't be able to poke holes into it? I can't, and I'm sure Tom can't either. It's just incredibly hard to apply the kind of resourcefulness that would naturally arise over time from real world application of human (or Keidran :P) ingenuity to something like this.

(And yes, the Riftwalls did already establish this principle, but they seemed relatively limited and (at least apparently) defunct. This is better.)

That being said, at least for me these kind of details have never been what Twokinds is about, and this is just another entry in a probably long list of ways the plot of the comic could not survive such strict scrutiny. (Like the fact that there's plentiful illusion magic, but apparently not really reliable counters to it. Again, warfare, assassinations...) No, at least for me Twokinds has always been a character story, with the plot and setting as dressing to that. The precise macguffins are really only relevant when they interface directly with the characters. (Like the shackle suppressing the link, or Flora's mysteriously missing necklace.)

And Tom's character writing, for the great majority of the time, is freakin' on point. That's his bread and butter, and that's why I'm here.

SomeBody wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:14 pm If you want an integrated society, he has the foundation to MAKE one right where he is. Why chase legends?
Because Trace hasn't quite gotten his brain completely around "I need to do something to mitigate the damage I've caused" yet. Probably gonna get there, though.

Dadrobit wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:43 am -Sera, (who had previously shown incredible resilience prior to Reni appearing) straight up fainted from excitement just from her presence.
This is irrelevant because she'd already been defeated by then. The scene was just to introduce Reni.

Dadrobit wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:58 am It's easy when you have the dubs and know the characters and have context. Listening in to conversations from people you have no idea who they are in a language that has completely different roots from your own and just sounds like sounds is another beast. Clovis would have been just another word alongside plenty of other common words and countless determiners/quantifiers/pronouns.
This might or might not be a valid detail-oriented gripe (I think it's arguable), but it's very solidly pointless since Reni could just as well have seen the wolf and others directly addressing Clovis with deference. I do agree that's not the impression one gets from that scene, though.

It's not like you don't have some good points, so why you gotta leaven them with bad ones? :P

(I don't think Reni is a problem, because she hasn't really done anything world-breaking. And for that matter, neither did Nora.)

BadFoMo wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pmAlso, when was it said that her satchels could reduce the weight of what was in them?
Panel 4.


Also, two thoughts:

1) So where's Trace's key?

and

2) Rose and Raine are about to meet.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#37 Post by leinglo »

leinglo wrote: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:32 am I'm betting it will end up malfunctioning and either:
a. teleport the group to a completely random location,
b. teleport the group back to Eric's ship, as that's been the one single residence Trace has spent the most time in,
or c. the key will just blow up.
Or I guess it'll just be option d. It works just fine, indicating Trace is indeed bound to the estate in some way that goes beyond memory.

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#38 Post by Candycat »

The gatekey doesn't seem to be popular around here. I agree that it could be broken and op, but we still know next to nothing about them besides what they do. .

Maybe there's a huge downside to gatekeys that make them impractical for using them offensively. I mean they're already limited to one location per person, and if establishing that link requires a lot of time and resources and possibly a personal connection to the destination then that might be enough to make gatekeys ineffective offensively . Especially considering people are able to just teleport already. That's not even taking into account the creation of the gatekey itself.

The gatekey just doesn't seem to be that important. It's just cool. It's likely something we'll see once and then see seldom used afterwards, like J.K.'s time-turners. Well at least I hope so.

I also don't see Reni being OP. She hasn't really done anything particularly impressive or really world-breaking. That early short range teleport she did to take out the "Templar" isn't really a big deal either. Consider the fact that Raine was able to do the same thing back by the tavern when her group was ambushed, and she's hardly an experienced magic user. And Reni is a royal dragon. She's definitely had some sort of magic education, so the fact that she probably knows a few defensive spells, like a sleep spell, also isn't surprising. I'd be more surprised if she didn't know any spells. And as for picking names out of a conversation, that really just depends. Anyone can do it, so this isn't really a problem due to Reni being a dragon. It's just a minor story convenience.

But actually where did Flora's necklace go
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#39 Post by Warrl »

There is a discussion that should have taken place back at the estate, but didn't appear on-screen. A discussion of how they intended to return, with six additional people - one of them injured and likely unable to walk.

If Reni remembered that she had the gate key, she could have said "That's taken care of." And the others - particularly Natani - probably wouldn't have questioned it, as they'd want to get on their way.

But suppose that Reni didn't have the gate key. Flora says "Um... where's the best place for Natani to set a waypoint? She's done that before." Natani says "I don't think I can do that many people." Someone answers "You don't have to take everyone, just the ones that can't walk or ride with Reni." Natani adds "and I also don't have enough mana crystals left to do it." Reni replies "I can lend you that much magic." And thus everyone gets back to the estate pretty cleanly, just as will happen now.

In other words, the gate key has little to no impact on this story; it merely lets Tom give us some cool pictures that are different from the cool pictures we've seen before. And to evaluate the impact on the world of such things existing, we'd need to know a lot more about their function, cost, and limits. (More about this later in the message.)

As for Reni being Deus Ex Machina: she's magically very powerful but quite unskilled. What she's shown as her own spells, is pretty low level magic. Trace, with his shield-throwing and other-people's-fireballs-redirecting, way outclasses her. Heck, Natani's waypoint and fire-suppression outclass her. In D&D terms she's like a half-dozen level-one mages. And her collection of artifacts? Well, in human terms she's a princess - a formally-recognized granddaughter of a royal human house. Her collection could be borrowed from the family's vaults and archives. And/or perhaps Mom, who is of unspecified age, also collected such artifacts and has made her collection available to her daughter.

Now, back to the gate key. Reni apparently expected it to open a gate to somewhere inside the estate. Instead it apparently opened to just barely outside the boundaries of the estate garden. Perhaps the magic didn't completely recognize Trace as eligible to enter the estate itself. On the other hand, Rose describes the location as "the backdoor", implying that it's in the one specific location where someone might expect a gate opened without completely-proper authorization to appear.

So perhaps this specific key (or all keys) will open a gate to the user's "home" and nowhere else, as determined by that person's identity, but also requires advance set-up at said destination. That would be a pretty substantial limitation. And it's a pretty narrow gate, not really useful for carts laden with goods - let alone invading armies. At least based on available information, gate keys aren't necessarily a society-changer.

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#40 Post by Technic[Bot] »

amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm
That being said, at least for me these kind of details have never been what Twokinds is about, and this is just another entry in a probably long list of ways the plot of the comic could not survive such strict scrutiny. (Like the fact that there's plentiful illusion magic, but apparently not really reliable counters to it. Again, warfare, assassinations...) No, at least for me Twokinds has always been a character story, with the plot and setting as dressing to that. The precise macguffins are really only relevant when they interface directly with the characters. (Like the shackle suppressing the link, or Flora's mysteriously missing necklace.)

And Tom's character writing, for the great majority of the time, is freakin' on point. That's his bread and butter, and that's why I'm here.
Exactly my thoughts. Ever since the first comic Towkinds plot has been, how to put it? All over the place. and it will probably stay like that up until 2077 when Tom finally finishes the story. We are here becasue we enjoy the characters and the not so consistent world Tom has crafted not because of his world building skills.
Besides world building is extremely hard. The lord of the rings and star wars created intrincated and interesed worlds, that is why there are still relevant over 70 and 30 years later respectively. And even those two have some inconsistencies here and there.

In any case I think Tom simply wants to advance the plot a bit faster. Party A and B reunion has been in the making for a couple years now. There are more interested things to see and do once the whole +15 members finally get together. And Tom is simply getting the busywork (i.e walking a lot) out of the way.

With respect to the portal I imagine the maintenance and power that think requires make it prohibitive for anyone other than grand templars and such. Besides you probably need to secure the destination area before stting it up so not much use for an army.

Also, two thoughts:
amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm 1) So where's Trace's key?

and

2) Rose and Raine are about to meet.
A potential plot device for the future and a reunion most of us have been expecting for a while.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#41 Post by Hulk10 »

Rose seemed not to trust Trace as she wondered what he was up to when he brought Flora with him. But she doesn't show this distrust.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#42 Post by BadJoke »

Don't know about you people, but I'm getting a little bored with the current arc.

It's mostly exposition on the world's inner working and doesn't get the plot moving much. It's almost one page of plot for two/three of exposition... I mean, even when we were "stuck on the boat" we had at least a bunch of character development to go with...

Would be time for the bad guys do actually do a REAL move against our heroes.
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#43 Post by steelabjur »

James Polymer wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:18 am
steelabjur wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:49 pm
Because the other place has the advantage of distance from Human lands. If Trace and co. try to setup in town here, word that Grand Templar Trace Legacy has set up shop would get out and they'd have the Templar hammering down the gate in weeks (half wanting to drag him back to his old life and the other half wanting him dead), along with Wolf raiders because of the war, and maybe even trouble with the Tiger tribals along their border because of who Trace is.
The problem is to everyone besides the main cast he's Trace Legacy: Genocidal Tyrant and Keidran Murderer ExtraordinaireTM. How many of Lynn'Knoll's current residents fled there specifically to get away from him, or had family members killed in his purges? If he suddenly showed up they would probably form a lynch mob, which would trigger Evil Trace in a place chock full of keidran. Not to mention Seer Brahm's daughter is keeping tabs on him via her familiars; without Nora around to protect it, traveling to Lynn'Knoll would expose its location. Even if they somehow managed to sneak in and live under the radar, the Templar will keep searching for the town, all the while enslaving and/or wiping out keidran on the mainland with impunity.

As much as I like Trace as a character, the current state of the world--the Templar as an order of militant extremists, the war between humans and keidran, and the attempted destruction of basitin society--is his doing. (True, he wasn't in his right mind at the time, but that was only because he delved into forbidden arts following the tragic death of his wife.) I don't think the rest of the world will let him just cut and run.
Kei didn't recognize him despite being the Captain of the Guard of the City Trace lords over, Trace being more or less his direct superior, and Kei having lived there his entire life. I don't think Trace, being Genocidal Tyrant and Keidran Murderer ExtraordinaireTM, might be a problem you expect it to be. He probably didn't have contact with the common folk where he could be picked out by sight since he had the entire Templar organization to do his dirty work (unless there are nobles or Templar who have fled there, since they're more likely to have had contact with Trace). He could show up, claim to be "John" a minor merchant who fell for a Tiger Keidran, and try to keep a low profile. He can't do that in Edinmire now, since he sort of blew the chance in the battle in the Square.

Seer Brahm's daughter is an issue, but one the party doesn't know of (yet), so that certainly could cause problems later. Same with the Templar's Master Spy (whose name escapes me at the moment), who has been following them from their first meeting. Given Lynn'Knoll's location, Templar getting there in numbers to begin with would be a problem for them, as marching soldiers miles through Keidran controlled country would likely lead to a bunch of dead soldiers (even if you sent mages with them, since the Templar mages would be far from their towers and Keidran have magic users in number too). Assassins are more likely, especially with Brahm's connection with Clovis. Then again, these are plot points the party doesn't know of yet, so have no influence over their choice to stay or continue to Lynn'Knoll. ;)

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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#44 Post by Dadrobit »

amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm (I don't think Reni is a problem, because she hasn't really done anything world-breaking. And for that matter, neither did Nora.)
You don't have to break the world to break reader interest.

Perhaps a clarification of my argument is in order.

It is not necessarily the tools exactly in and of themselves which make me disinterested in her, it is the style, and constant application of them.

As an example, I do not mind reading a good murder mystery where the detective pulls a secret, hidden gun from his boot and shoots the bad guy at the last second in a climax moment because the author specifically mentioned earlier at least in passing that the detective placed his gun there. The gun is only unknown to the bad guy and perhaps forgotten by the reader.

Tom executed halfway decently on this Chekhov's Gun concept earlier in the comic with things like the necklace, but has rarely done so since. (Like the basitin 3 way jump attack. Where the heck did that come from?) Reni has little to none of that, indeed even going into the negative by explicitly saying that she's inexperienced in magic, but just so happens to know exactly what's needed as it's needed. Like an inverted Chekov's Gun.

Though more like Chekhovs Armory at this rate.

Reni has shown up 5 times so far, (excluding background cameos) and every single time she has man handled the plot almost entirely through conveniences. Defeating Sara, driving off the wolf attack, capturing the wolf alive that she smashed earlier, reading his mind to perfectly guess one of the masterminds, using saddlebags of holding to connect the two groups, and pulling out the key to instantly send them back. The frequency of her success has put her in a place in my mind where I can just say, "Oh, Reni's here, I guess it's time for a problem to be solved." The only mystery left to the reader is if she's going to pull something out of her proverbial bag of tricks, or her real one. It feels like Tom is just using Reni to write from the seat of his pants all too often.
amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm
Dadrobit wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:52 pm Nora was effectively removed from the comic because Tom worried that she was just too powerful a tool for the party.
Citation needed.
Tom in stream. No screenshots of it though, I wish I had so it's just my word really. People have asked where she was and when she was coming back and Tom stated that he was thinking about what a 2000+ year old elder dragon in the back pocket of the party would do to the story at the time of the Basitin Isles arc and decided to remove her before he/they became dependent on her as a get out of jail free card.
amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm And Tom's character writing, for the great majority of the time, is freakin' on point. That's his bread and butter, and that's why I'm here.
Honestly the characters are kinda flimsy in a lot of places still as well. I find there is probably a 50-50 split in characters that feel really well written and real vs the ones that are just... Ehhhhh. Part of that unfortunately includes Trace and Flora.
amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm
SomeBody wrote: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:14 pm If you want an integrated society, he has the foundation to MAKE one right where he is. Why chase legends?
Because Trace hasn't quite gotten his brain completely around "I need to do something to mitigate the damage I've caused" yet. Probably gonna get there, though.
Part of why Trace is in that negative pool. Even knowing what he did, he hasn't really shown much of any remorse or inclination to fix what he did. He's pretty much just running away from it all trying to get to Lyn'Knoll. Here's hoping that the Edinmere crisis shifts his focus.
amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm This is irrelevant because she'd already been defeated by then. The scene was just to introduce Reni.
Her being defeated is debatable. I think the only thing truly defeated about her after Keith swiped her was her bra strap. Complete speculation, but there is a distinct possibility that it could have devolved into a "This isn't even my final form" shtick. :mrgrin:
amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm This might or might not be a valid detail-oriented gripe (I think it's arguable), but it's very solidly pointless since Reni could just as well have seen the wolf and others directly addressing Clovis with deference. I do agree that's not the impression one gets from that scene, though.
Implying that a pawn is on a first name basis with Clovis? I think that direct interaction would create a scenario even less likely for "Clovis" to pop up often enough to become a recognizable name over vague titles like "sir" and "Prince".

Although, I think "Prince" would have been a far better outcome. I imagine Natani wouldn't have been able to completely assume that Clovis was the one behind the attack just from that name alone, and Group B would have no way of completely assuming he was behind it either just from Carver being in the area. But when they come together, there could have been a cool "Ah ha!" moment as they all realized the connection instead of just "Oh, I read his mind and now we all know it." We got a cool looking page out of it maybe, but I think it's just playing style over substance.
amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pmIt's not like you don't have some good points, so why you gotta leaven them with bad ones? :P
Never said I was perfect, just only nearly. :mrgrin:
amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pmAlso, two thoughts:

1) So where's Trace's key?
Brahn maybe? I think it was Trace's manor he was in when meeting with Clovis. He could have made a dubious claim to it after Trace's disappearance.
amenon wrote: Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:48 pm2) Rose and Raine are about to meet.
I wonder if Euchre ever even told her about Raine? There is a good chance that they never spoke to each other after the gallows catastrophe, even if they saw each other.
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SomeBody
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Re: Comic for March 10, 2018: Doorway

#45 Post by SomeBody »

Just want to point out that Reni showing up and putting down whats-her-face WAS the foreshadowing, or the chekhov's gun that set up her being around to fend off the main attack. She showed up for a relatively minor confrontation (that the MCs weren't even losing). So when she showed up and kicked [censored] in the attack, it's not "Where the heck'd the dragon come from?!" It's not book 1 early setup, but given the release rate of this comic it wasn't half bad.

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