Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

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AndreRhineDavis
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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#16 Post by AndreRhineDavis »

Reni wrote:I’ve… only ever been a dragon, so I don’t know…
It's things like this that Tom puts in that really makes me feel like he reads the forum and that influences what he includes in the comic.

Just last week, BadFoMo posted:
BadFoMo wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:43 pm I'm not sure if I should continue holding onto my moronic ‘Vampire: the Masquerade’ inspired theory/transformation interest or not.
I mean, Reni is vague enough that I could continue believing that Nora was one of the first actual Dragons (if not the first) and that all other Dragons after her are Humans/Basitins/Keidran/etc. which she turned into Dragons because she thought they were worthy of such power/turned by others who were previously turned by her for the same reason, but I feel this is most likely just a normal family tree.
-------

Also, consider:
Reni wrote:I was raised almost exclusively among humans. The only other dragon I know well is my mother, the former “dragon princess.”
So... who is Reni's father? There are two obvious possibilities; either Reni's father was human too, or he was a dragon who didn't stay around to raise Reni. We actually don't know anything about dragon breeding/raising/family habits. Being the solitary creatures they are, dragons might just meet up to bonk every now and again, and then leave the mothers to raise the children.

Also, if Reni's father *was* human, he most likely would have died when Reni was very young, dragon lifespans being what they are. So Reni would have been raised by a single mother in either case.

Also, for what it's worth, the dragon family tree from last page seemed to have a single line going from parent to child, as if children were born of one parent. This could just be a stylistic choice by Tom, or something that Tom didn't think about, or Reni may have only been including certain ancestors, (e.g. only the women, as dragon society may be matriarchal), or whatever. But it's interesting to note.

-------

Also, Reni talking about the dragons "not caring" what the Masks have to say seems to imply that the Masks' laws are not like laws of nature, which are inherent unbreakable rules of how reality works, but rather like the laws of government, which are enforced by the powers that be but can be broken, in which case the powers that be will punish you. We already saw with Euchre begetting Raine that he was able to find a "loophole" in the Masks' laws, and now we see again that the dragons can disobey the Masks' "laws".

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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#17 Post by steelabjur »

Schrodinger wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:05 am
steelabjur wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:37 am
Schrodinger wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:24 am
NiWo21k wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:14 am At least we know that even in the world TK "The Talk" produces the same reactions ^^
And its cute seeing Renis fan club is growing - she might have to start being comfortable with this, it won't get smaller from here on out :wink:

But what i find more interesting, is the part that is dropped here about the masks (ok, i am not one of these deep lore TK fans, so for me its an interesting bit) - that the Masks always tried to keep some control and the dragons never really cared about, so how the hell did they never really clash with each other?
The dragons exist outside the masks' sphere of influence, and we already know they don't care for hybrids very much. I imagine there was plenty of complaining by the masks but little they could actually do to stop it from happening.
We don't know if that is necessarily the case, after all Neutral was able to lift the Human/Keidran hybrid ban without the help or agreement of the other Masks, which suggests that she was the sole source of that ban.
That actually has little to do with it since Reni is specifically talking about dragons and humans, which Neutral has influence over neither. There might be some calls that the patron mask of Humanity is getting an unfair advantage by interbreeding with dragons, but again, dragons operate on their own terms and don't play the games the masks do.
Yeah, I was addressing your comment that "they don't care for hybrids very much". It seems to me that if the Human Mask didn't care for hybrids being created, it would've taken more than Neutral to permit/prevent Human/Keidran Hybrids like Trace and Flors's kid coming to be, the Human Mask would've had it blocked as well (assuming the other Mask we've seen is the Human Mask, he and Neutral are not exactly on friendly terms).

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Dadrobit
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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#18 Post by Dadrobit »

It's interesting to note how she swaps from "we" to "they" when talking about dragon culture. I wonder if she often unconsciously or even consciously disassociates herself from being a dragon or among dragon culture?

Also, I hope we get to see some vested interest in the keidran conflict from Reni on a personal level. The possibility of her being, (distantly) related to the king that was just assassinated could provide a lot of drastically needed agency for her character and I'd kill to see some development on the assassination plot and its story possibilities that were just brushed over before.

But as Tom posted in chat when I prompted that inquiry earlier:
Tom wrote: Yeah, probably. Though, due to the supreme age gap, her grandmother would be the former king's great, great, great, great, great etc relative.

If there related at all anymore, considering how lines of succession can break over time. (sic)
So that's a big old pile of "Maybe." :mrgrin:
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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#19 Post by Arbiter »

Am I the only one who want's to see a side story about how Reni's grandparents met?

Why do I have a feeling that they were in a damsel in distress situation, with her grandfather kiddnaping the princess and knights trying to save her from the "evil" dragon. The only probleme were that the two of them eventually fell in love. :D

(Plus we need a Reni Smiley ASAP)

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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#20 Post by Warrl »

Schrodinger wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:05 am
steelabjur wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:37 am after all Neutral was able to lift the Human/Keidran hybrid ban without the help or agreement of the other Masks, which suggests that she was the sole source of that ban.
That actually has little to do with it since Reni is specifically talking about dragons and humans, which Neutral has influence over neither. There might be some calls that the patron mask of Humanity is getting an unfair advantage by interbreeding with dragons, but again, dragons operate on their own terms and don't play the games the masks do.
Remember, Trace and Flora together have enough magical oomph that they were able to defy and defeat a Neutral. I suspect that lots of dragons are more powerful than that.
AndreRhineDavis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:56 am Also, consider:
Reni wrote:I was raised almost exclusively among humans. The only other dragon I know well is my mother, the former “dragon princess.”
So... who is Reni's father? There are two obvious possibilities; either Reni's father was human too, or he was a dragon who didn't stay around to raise Reni. We actually don't know anything about dragon breeding/raising/family habits. Being the solitary creatures they are, dragons might just meet up to bonk every now and again, and then leave the mothers to raise the children.

Also, if Reni's father *was* human, he most likely would have died when Reni was very young, dragon lifespans being what they are. So Reni would have been raised by a single mother in either case.
A single mother and younger cousins.

As for Reni's father... there are a number of legends and stories about some valiant knight going to save the princess from the dragon, (and in some of them it turns out that the princess doesn't particularly want saved... youtube link nsfw) so maybe one of those valiant knights did him in.

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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#21 Post by Candycat »

Huh. That escalated quickly. I mean it went from "how is it like being a dragon" to the rather awkward "my mom was a dragon and my father was a human, and then they forked". So now we know that wanting to get it on with a Dragon is a legitimate goal for someone to have in this world. Isn't that interesting?

Also interesting that Reni brought up the Masks. Wonder when was the last time they were mentioned?

And we got more flustered Reni! I'm all about that. :heart:
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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#22 Post by Tendo »

Wait, so did Tom basically just confirm that Human/Dragon hybrids, while rare, have existed for a while now? I mean, in terms of human lifespans a dragon's grandmother would likely be very very old...

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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#23 Post by Panther »

Don't blush like it , Reni : it makes you more cute :nora: :heart:
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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#24 Post by Schrodinger »

steelabjur wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:27 am
Schrodinger wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:05 am
steelabjur wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:37 am
Schrodinger wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:24 am
NiWo21k wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:14 am At least we know that even in the world TK "The Talk" produces the same reactions ^^
And its cute seeing Renis fan club is growing - she might have to start being comfortable with this, it won't get smaller from here on out :wink:

But what i find more interesting, is the part that is dropped here about the masks (ok, i am not one of these deep lore TK fans, so for me its an interesting bit) - that the Masks always tried to keep some control and the dragons never really cared about, so how the hell did they never really clash with each other?
The dragons exist outside the masks' sphere of influence, and we already know they don't care for hybrids very much. I imagine there was plenty of complaining by the masks but little they could actually do to stop it from happening.
We don't know if that is necessarily the case, after all Neutral was able to lift the Human/Keidran hybrid ban without the help or agreement of the other Masks, which suggests that she was the sole source of that ban.
That actually has little to do with it since Reni is specifically talking about dragons and humans, which Neutral has influence over neither. There might be some calls that the patron mask of Humanity is getting an unfair advantage by interbreeding with dragons, but again, dragons operate on their own terms and don't play the games the masks do.
Yeah, I was addressing your comment that "they don't care for hybrids very much". It seems to me that if the Human Mask didn't care for hybrids being created, it would've taken more than Neutral to permit/prevent Human/Keidran Hybrids like Trace and Flors's kid coming to be, the Human Mask would've had it blocked as well (assuming the other Mask we've seen is the Human Mask, he and Neutral are not exactly on friendly terms).
That's... one thing that's never been adequately explained. There's been reference to the masks playing a grand game of Risk on the continent and that there are rules to the game they abide by, but we don't know which mask set which rules or if they were arbitrated by a third party. We can confirm that Neutral has control over keidran interbreeding at the very least.
AndreRhineDavis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:56 am
Reni wrote:I’ve… only ever been a dragon, so I don’t know…
It's things like this that Tom puts in that really makes me feel like he reads the forum and that influences what he includes in the comic.
It's no big secret that Tom trolls the forums for feedback or story ideas. Same for the art streams and the IRC. He'll throw winks and nods our way from time to time. It does make me thing that someone on Patreon should request a sketch of Reni as a good doggo.
What was it the spider said to the fly...

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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#25 Post by amenon »

Candycat wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:40 pmAlso interesting that Reni brought up the Masks. Wonder when was the last time they were mentioned?
Zen invoked them here. Before that, uh... not recently :grin:
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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#26 Post by Foxx Trotter »

Ah, yes...the road less traveled. It most certainly catches Reni in quite a quandary. :mrgreen:
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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#27 Post by BadJoke »

Great. Just when we were about to get some solid info it all get fooled because of a "parental sex yuck!". :grin:
Dadrobit wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:53 am It's interesting to note how she swaps from "we" to "they" when talking about dragon culture. I wonder if she often unconsciously or even consciously disassociates herself from being a dragon or among dragon culture?
Indeed. That's interesting (makes me like her even more).
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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#28 Post by Candycat »

Schrodinger wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:37 pm
steelabjur wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:27 am
Schrodinger wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:05 am
steelabjur wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:37 am
Schrodinger wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:24 am

The dragons exist outside the masks' sphere of influence, and we already know they don't care for hybrids very much. I imagine there was plenty of complaining by the masks but little they could actually do to stop it from happening.
We don't know if that is necessarily the case, after all Neutral was able to lift the Human/Keidran hybrid ban without the help or agreement of the other Masks, which suggests that she was the sole source of that ban.
That actually has little to do with it since Reni is specifically talking about dragons and humans, which Neutral has influence over neither. There might be some calls that the patron mask of Humanity is getting an unfair advantage by interbreeding with dragons, but again, dragons operate on their own terms and don't play the games the masks do.
Yeah, I was addressing your comment that "they don't care for hybrids very much". It seems to me that if the Human Mask didn't care for hybrids being created, it would've taken more than Neutral to permit/prevent Human/Keidran Hybrids like Trace and Flors's kid coming to be, the Human Mask would've had it blocked as well (assuming the other Mask we've seen is the Human Mask, he and Neutral are not exactly on friendly terms).
That's... one thing that's never been adequately explained. There's been reference to the masks playing a grand game of Risk on the continent and that there are rules to the game they abide by, but we don't know which mask set which rules or if they were arbitrated by a third party. We can confirm that Neutral has control over keidran interbreeding at the very least.
AndreRhineDavis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:56 am
Reni wrote:I’ve… only ever been a dragon, so I don’t know…
It's things like this that Tom puts in that really makes me feel like he reads the forum and that influences what he includes in the comic.
It's no big secret that Tom trolls the forums for feedback or story ideas. Same for the art streams and the IRC. He'll throw winks and nods our way from time to time. It does make me thing that someone on Patreon should request a sketch of Reni as a good doggo.
He trolls the foums? Where?
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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#29 Post by Drago_Whooves »

Wait a second, dragons can breed with humans, have we even seen Trace's parents in the comic?

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Re: Comic for February 15, 2018: Dragon Genealogy

#30 Post by CrRAR »

AndreRhineDavis wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:56 am So... who is Reni's father?
You want my demented from way out in-left-field totally wrong-o yet completely plausible guess?

http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/228/

Purple-ish [✓]
Scary fire-blast [✓]
Ferocious wing flap [✓]
:wink:
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