War between Keidran and Humans

[Hulk10]

I am not sure I would say that war between Keidran and Humans is imminent. War between Humans and Wolf Keidran does seem to be rather likely. But I'm not yet convinced. I find it hard to believe that all Keidran's and Humans will go to war... Anybody got any other ideas?

[Neutral Smith]

Has there been peace between the humans and the Keidran? Their relation is slaver-slave, and that doesn't sound peaceful.
The relations between the species of Keidran are more interesting. The Wolves attacked the Tigers, and are known to capture Foxes for slavery.

There are too many factions: Templar, traitor (of who?) Clovis and her men, Tigers, 'normal' Humans, Wolves, Vulpine, Eastern and Western Basitin, other species of Keidran... And of course the various gods and dragons (?). We have only seen a glimpse of the politics, and I think it's much more complex.

[Hulk10]

Yeah but I doubt that war is imminent as some are thinking.

[amenon]

It isn't just imminent, it's actually ongoing, and has been for a while.

Notably, Group B's hometown was destroyed. We also know that Eric's and Kat's was, from the bulletin board here. (See map for confirmation)

[Hulk10]

War between humans and wolf keidran yes. But what about the other Keidran species? If Euphemerial is so dedicated to preserving the Keidran species then she should allow for hybrids of all the species of Keidrans. At least that's what I think.

[Warrl]

I am not sure I would say that war between Keidran and Humans is imminent. War between Humans and Wolf Keidran does seem to be rather likely.

And here I thought it was explicitly already in progress.

But I'm not yet convinced. I find it hard to believe that all Keidran's and Humans will go to war... Anybody got any other ideas?

Apparently the tiger-keidran had other ideas.

Thing is, under old!Trace (before he got amnesia and met Flora), it would be extremely foolish for the tiger-keidran to ally with the humans. Trace's intent was to wipe out the keidran, and while it might be convenient for him to ally with the tiger-keidran - or at least keep them neutral - that would only last until he was through wiping out the canid keidran. Then it would be the cats' turn to go down.

Now... when the tiger-keidran delegation came to Edinmire, Trace was thought to be lost and the power structure of the Templar somewhat in flux - it would certainly be reasonable to think that an alliance might work. But then Trace turned up - and defended keidran against what were thought to be Templars. Which is not something one would expect of old!Trace. The Templar power structure is even more uncertain. What happens if Trace returns to power is uncertain. It's basically a confused, complicated mess.

It would be perfectly reasonable of the tiger keidran to come forward and seek alliances with some or all of the Templar (and other human) powers, possibly including Trace. And, if they have been sufficiently observant, Flora. It would also be perfectly reasonable for them to step back and try to figure out what's happening.

[Hulk10]

True enough. The situation is very complicated. All we can do is hope that the Keidran the 3 Keidran species don't get wiped out. But I don't see it very likely that the 3 types of Keidran won't be wiped out.

[Warrl]

All we can do is hope that the Keidran the 3 Keidran species don't get wiped out.

Keidran are officially one species, although canid/felid crossbreeds are sometimes infertile.

We do know that there are at least these breeds of keidran: forest wolf, arctic wolf, dog, fox, tiger, snow leopard. And Katherine's feline ancestry doesn't appear at first glance to be either tiger or snow leopard, while we've seen at least one saber-tooth-tiger keidran.

[steelabjur]

I am not sure I would say that war between Keidran and Humans is imminent. War between Humans and Wolf Keidran does seem to be rather likely. But I'm not yet convinced. I find it hard to believe that all Keidran's and Humans will go to war... Anybody got any other ideas?

I see it more like Native Americans and the colonists, Keidran society is not really organized in a structure that you can say you're "at war" with, only that you're at war with x tribe or y nation.

[Hulk10]

All we can do is hope that the Keidran the 3 Keidran species don't get wiped out.

Keidran are officially one species, although canid/felid crossbreeds are sometimes infertile.

We do know that there are at least these breeds of keidran: forest wolf, arctic wolf, dog, fox, tiger, snow leopard. And Katherine's feline ancestry doesn't appear at first glance to be either tiger or snow leopard, while we've seen at least one saber-tooth-tiger keidran.

Technically that's true. But in nature you don't see infertility in offspring in unions between different breeds, but rather different species, but yeah your right.

However in some works of fiction I have heard people using the word breed to refer to a specific species, like Guardians of Gahoole where the main protagonist Soren decides against talking about the 'rareness' of his 'breed' the Tyto alba or Common Barn Owl.

[Ddraig]

All we can do is hope that the Keidran the 3 Keidran species don't get wiped out.

Keidran are officially one species, although canid/felid crossbreeds are sometimes infertile.

We do know that there are at least these breeds of keidran: forest wolf, arctic wolf, dog, fox, tiger, snow leopard. And Katherine's feline ancestry doesn't appear at first glance to be either tiger or snow leopard, while we've seen at least one saber-tooth-tiger keidran.

Technically that's true. But in nature you don't see infertility in offspring in unions between different breeds, but rather different species, but yeah your right.

However in some works of fiction I have heard people using the word breed to refer to a specific species, like Guardians of Gahoole where the main protagonist Soren decides against talking about the 'rareness' of his 'breed' the Tyto abla or Common Barn Owl.

"Breed" has several different meanings, to the point where it effectively just means "type"

As for feline keidran breeds: The map has a "Lesser Feline Tribes" in the Tiger Keidran territory, which to me suggests there's more than just Tigers and Sneps as well

[Hulk10]

All we can do is hope that the Keidran the 3 Keidran species don't get wiped out.

Keidran are officially one species, although canid/felid crossbreeds are sometimes infertile.

We do know that there are at least these breeds of keidran: forest wolf, arctic wolf, dog, fox, tiger, snow leopard. And Katherine's feline ancestry doesn't appear at first glance to be either tiger or snow leopard, while we've seen at least one saber-tooth-tiger keidran.

Technically that's true. But in nature you don't see infertility in offspring in unions between different breeds, but rather different species, but yeah your right.

However in some works of fiction I have heard people using the word breed to refer to a specific species, like Guardians of Gahoole where the main protagonist Soren decides against talking about the 'rareness' of his 'breed' the Tyto alba or Common Barn Owl.

"Breed" has several different meanings, to the point where it effectively just means "type"

As for feline keidran breeds: The map has a "Lesser Feline Tribes" in the Tiger Keidran territory, which to me suggests there's more than just Tigers and Sneps as well

Yeah so it could be interepreted as the Keidran are separate species but are all classified under the group known as Keidran.

[Warrl]

I think that keidran (or at least some keidran types) still qualify as all one species on the basis of Katherine being a result of a selective-breeding project. Feline/canine crossbreeds are probably not *usually* infertile, the way mules are - you don't start a selective-breeding project hoping that your breeding female will turn out to be one of the 60 per 500 years who are fertile...

Also on the basis of the arranged marriage between Sythe and Flora - you don't arrange an alliance marriage that has little hope of producing offspring to cement the alliance.

However, if crossbreeds are infertile often enough for the fact to be noted, they probably are on their way to being separate species.

The Zootopia fanfic Lost Causes & Broken Dreams is more-or-less about the genetics of interspecies reproduction, and the author has professional credentials relevant to the work. It ain't a fluffybunny happy story... but it's a good read. As are the science notes that the author frequently puts below the chapters.

[Hulk10]

I think that keidran (or at least some keidran types) still qualify as all one species on the basis of Katherine being a result of a selective-breeding project. Feline/canine crossbreeds are probably not *usually* infertile, the way mules are - you don't start a selective-breeding project hoping that your breeding female will turn out to be one of the 60 per 500 years who are fertile...

Also on the basis of the arranged marriage between Sythe and Flora - you don't arrange an alliance marriage that has little hope of producing offspring to cement the alliance.

However, if crossbreeds are infertile often enough for the fact to be noted, they probably are on their way to being separate species.

The Zootopia fanfic Lost Causes & Broken Dreams is more-or-less about the genetics of interspecies reproduction, and the author has professional credentials relevant to the work. It ain't a fluffybunny happy story... but it's a good read. As are the science notes that the author frequently puts below the chapters.

True but as I recall it was confirmed to be an arranged marriage in the comics.

[Warrl]

as I recall it was confirmed to be an arranged marriage in the comics.

Yes; that was why I mentioned it.