The Intersection of Team A & Team B

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Bojack727
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The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#1 Post by Bojack727 »

I have to give credit to Tom. I mean, I think a lot of us have been waiting for this... But experience has taught me not to get my hopes up (after all, I've been reading this comic since around the start of the Basatin arc). And yet, rather than a 'partial' meeting of the two groups (ie, skrying or some kind of psychic Skype or whatever), the two story-lines have literally intersected with each other. So props to Tom for not taking the cheap option and continuing to toy with us by teasing them meeting each other.

And, there's the fact that there's multiple similarities between the group: both prominently feature a male human/female keidren pairing (Trace/Flora & Red/Raine), both have a wolf assassin (Zen & Natani), both have mysterious 'animal' friends (Cat-Nora & Mrs. Nibley), both have an adolescent female spitfire (Maddie & Karen), and of course both have a potential female human/male anthro pairing (Lynn/Sealeen & Sythe/Maren). As such, I'm certainly looking forward to seeing how this historical meeting will play out. And if Red's reaction to Trace (the two being childhood friends) is any indication, then I can't wait to see how the others react- especially Natani and Zen.

Anyway, feel free to let me know what you guys thought of this? You know: what you're looking forward to, how you think this might possibly play out, as well as what you hope is going to happen as a direct result of this fateful meeting. I personally am looking forward to seeing how these two long-standing arcs are going to blend.
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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#2 Post by Warrl »

You missed that each team has a powerful mage of effectively-limited skill (amnesiac Trace, barely-trained Raine), a lesser mage with more training (Natani and Red), a warrior-diplomat (Keith and Sythe), a character who is in some sense two-in-one (Flora pregnant, Raine uncontrolled shapeshifting), someone who is at least technically a prisoner (Natani and Zen)...

I would somewhat discount the strange animal companion because, as I recall, Mrs. N wasn't encountered until after Nora was taken out of the picture. Or not-long before.

Also, Sealeen hasn't exactly joined Group A (yet?) so I would discount that; in trade I would offer a second possible human/keidran pairing (Eric/Katherine and Sythe/Maren) and a strong bond between two people of different species that are NOT a human/keidran pair (Keith/Natani, Sythe/Nibbly).

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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#3 Post by amenon »

Interesting topic! What am I looking forward to? Hmm... well, who here has something to say to someone else?

Flora/Anyone is a dynamic, because befriending people is pretty much her thing. But more specifically, Sythe/Flora/Trace is a dynamic that could lead to something.

Natani/Zen/Raine is potentially quite a dynamic. Raine's mother is the person responsible for the deaths of their parents and their village. (And indeed, their own attempted wholesale slaughter.) If Natani and Zen are ever going to successfully kill somebody, you won't find a worthier murder-candidate than Mary Silverlock. So that could be some cause for events.

Natani/Zen, Keith/Zen, and Natani/Zen/Keith are the dynamicest of dynamics. Even being as objective as I can be, I think this is where there's the most to explore, by a country mile. And I'm very curious to see how it turns out!

Also, a thought that occurred to me... I wonder if maybe they won't ever make it back to the estate. This, on the ground right now, is Group A. There's nobody back there that anybody here has to go back for. So this could be a new split of the cast, as well as a join. (And then we get a new Group C, in Maddie, Lynn, and the mercs trying to track down the wayward ambassador and the target of Sealeen's fangirl glee :P)
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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#4 Post by Warrl »

I thought Sealeen was fangirling Lynn...

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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#5 Post by amenon »

All the more reason for them to go together, but she's a total templar/Trace geek :P

Also, something pretty obvious that I left out above: There's three people here who knew Trace before the whole amnesia bit, so that's obviously a big possibility. Slipped my mind because they've all met before already. But it could still come into play in a big way now.
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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#6 Post by Warrl »

There's three people here who knew Trace before the whole amnesia bit
And back in the manor there's Rosalyn, who knew Trace and Saria.

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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#7 Post by MuonNeutrino »

amenon wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:41 pmAlso, a thought that occurred to me... I wonder if maybe they won't ever make it back to the estate. This, on the ground right now, is Group A. There's nobody back there that anybody here has to go back for. So this could be a new split of the cast, as well as a join. (And then we get a new Group C, in Maddie, Lynn, and the mercs trying to track down the wayward ambassador and the target of Sealeen's fangirl glee :P)
I've actually been wondering about this as well - not necessarily this specific idea, but just wondering if Tom will come up with some reason to split groups up again and/or peel off characters to leave the story in some way. And I've been wondering because when you put everyone from groups A and B together, it's actually rather a *lot* of people (especially if you include ancillaries like the mercs) - Trace, Flora, Keith, Natani, Eric, Kat, Mike, Evals, Lynn, Maddie, Sealeen, and Landen, plus Raine, Red, Sythe, Maren, Karen, Zen, and Nibs, even ignoring 'current story arc' entries like Reni and Rose. If/when everyone ends up at the manor, that'd be twenty-one named characters under one roof! In the sort of comic format that Twokinds uses, it strikes me that having that many characters in one place definitely has the potential to bog things down, simply because there's only so many characters and so much interaction you can pack into a page. With this many people, it seems you run the risk of either having some of them end up too 'out of focus'/'in the background' even when they shouldn't be simply because there's so many, or else having the number of strips to get through a given sequence of events balloon to keep track of everyone.

And, as noted, it's not just that the number of *people* has increased, but the number of possible sets of *interactions* has increased. If I can go all nerdy for a moment, even if we restrict 'interactions' to three people at most and include only the 14 core group A and B characters (leaving out the basitin/mercs, Nibs, and Rose/Reni/etc), the number of possible interaction sets has still increased from 119 (a group of 8 plus a group of 6) to 455 (one group of 14)! Obviously, that's just a blind calculation and not all of those theoretical combinations would necessarily have interesting things to talk about on-screen, but the point remains that groups A and B in one place have more possible sets of interactions than the same number of people in two separate groups.

And so I wonder if Tom might do something to split the characters up again in some way and/or somehow reduce the number of characters in one place, if he's worried about this issue in any way.

One thing that comes to mind is that over the course of the comic, while the cast has often picked up new members during various story arcs, historically some of them have dropped back out one way or another once the arc ends. Saria, Neutral, and the group B characters dropped out after their involvement in the early chapters, Natani joined the main cast but Zen mostly went away again until the group B story started up, Eric and company joined the cast but Eric's brother didn't, Maddie and Lynn ended up leaving with the group but the rest of the new characters from that arc (those still alive!) stayed on the island, etc. It makes me wonder which of the current arc's characters will actually stick around after it's over - e.g. who from Eric's sub-group will want to go to Lyn'knoll, will the mercs actually join the cast, will anyone from the town end up joining for some reason or will they remain behind, etc, not to mention (again looking back to the basitin isles arc) whether any characters (major or minor) will bite the dust!
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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#8 Post by amenon »

MuonNeutrino wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:42 pm With this many people, it seems you run the risk of either having some of them end up too 'out of focus'/'in the background' even when they shouldn't be simply because there's so many, or else having the number of strips to get through a given sequence of events balloon to keep track of everyone.
Indeed. And I personally feel that this has already happened in the comic at least once, when the Kat/Eric plotline wasn't touched on again before the timeskip. (Or indeed, since.) And if you look for them, you can occasionally find scene opportunities that feel interesting that weren't taken. (For instance, also on the ship before the timeskip, we never saw Keith and Natani part on the night of their bath together, after the anniversary chapter. That was a huge day for them, so surely there would have been a page in it.)

MuonNeutrino wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:42 pmAnd, as noted, it's not just that the number of *people* has increased, but the number of possible sets of *interactions* has increased.
Yes, very much so. I have personal experience with this: When I wrote a story with three characters, it turned out naturally at 17k words. When, with all my same inclinations, I wrote a story with five, it ended up at 53k, with less out of the possible dynamics in play, and was still considerably more clunky and rushed. The scaling is very much higher than linear.
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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#9 Post by Rafe »

Instead of comparing current relationships of the two groups, I'm more interested in new relationships between the two groups. Some potentially very interesting possibilities here:

Karen and Maddie: Each have managed to get into some serious mischief on their own. Imagine the things that could happen if they start working together. Who knows, maybe Maeve could be in on it too.

Raine and Roselyn: They're cousins who (as far as we know) have never met. Raine might figure Roselyn had died years ago, and Roselyn might not even know that Raine exists. They share a dark past. Will they put up barriers and hide their feelings from each other, or will they realize how close they could be and share things that only the other might understand?

Maren and Trace: They have "a past". I doubt if Maren would ever think of coming between Trace and Flora, but as insecure as Flora is, I wonder if she might let her imagination get away from her.

There are also some things that, now that the groups are together, might be resolved:

Now that it turns out that Zen not only saved Group B from dying at the hands of Carver, summoned help for them, which included Trace, Flora, and a dragon, and proved he wasn't lying about his link with Natani, will Red and Sythe admit that he was right all along (mostly) and deserves an apology?

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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#10 Post by Cpt.Obvious »

Rafe wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:57 amThere are also some things that, now that the groups are together, might be resolved:

Now that it turns out that Zen not only saved Group B from dying at the hands of Carver, summoned help for them, which included Trace, Flora, and a dragon, and proved he wasn't lying about his link with Natani, will Red and Sythe admit that he was right all along (mostly) and deserves an apology?
And if so, will Zen be as uncomfortable as Natani was in the beginning, and still can be at times around the rest of Group A?

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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#11 Post by amenon »

Cpt.Obvious wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:20 pm
Rafe wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:57 amThere are also some things that, now that the groups are together, might be resolved:

Now that it turns out that Zen not only saved Group B from dying at the hands of Carver, summoned help for them, which included Trace, Flora, and a dragon, and proved he wasn't lying about his link with Natani, will Red and Sythe admit that he was right all along (mostly) and deserves an apology?
And if so, will Zen be as uncomfortable as Natani was in the beginning, and still can be at times around the rest of Group A?
I don't think he deserves an apology as such -- he was trying to kill them and all -- but a 'thank you' would probably be in order.

I think Zen would be able to roll with the group pretty well. He strikes me as much more easygoing and sociable than Natani, at least on the surface. The real tension points are probably with Keith, Natani, and Keith and Natani, because all of that is personal. I mean, I don't think he's going to be instantly best buddies with Red or anything... but that's going to be mutually a 'who cares' thing. No stakes in it.
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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#12 Post by Eclipse »

I do think the groups are going to split up again shortly after their business is done at the estate. This is just too many characters to deal with at once, they're going to have to cut down a bit. They might even write some people out. What I think might happen is that first they find a healer for Zen. Maybe they rope that apothecary who was with Sealeen and Landen into curing him somehow, which somehow leads to the two of them joining. From there, Reni comes back and Natani and Zen help her interrogate the wolf which either reveals to them the conspiracy between Brahn and Clovis or at the very least gives them a clue that leads them in that direction. From there, I think the group might split up, Group A stays in Edenmire to investigate the attack while Group B continues to Lyn'knoll, with some members switching groups. This is how I think the new groups would break down:

A:
Trace
Flora
Keith
Natani
Zen
Reni
Lynn
Maddie
Sealeen
Landen

B:
Raine
Red
Maren
Karen
Sythe
Mrs. Nibbly
Eric
Kathrin
Mike
Evals

Maybe Sara also somehow joins Group A? Not sure how though since she's currently in prison.

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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#13 Post by Warrl »

Ah my take on it...

Group 1: Ambassador-General Keith Keiser, Lynn, Maddie, Natani, probably Zen unless he's too injured, possibly Reni, maybe Sythe the trained Keidran diplomat (and Mrs. Nibbly), thinner possibility Kathryn (with Sythe) - they do NOT stay in Edinmire to investigate, they do NOT go to Lyn'knoll at this time (maybe later). They go to the Human capitol.

Group 2: Trace, Flora, Raine, Karen, maybe Maren, maybe Red if Maren, probably Sythe, maybe Kathryn - they plan to head to Lyn'knoll. Shtuff happens. It may take them quite a while to get out of Edinmire. (I still want the cub to be born in, or just before they get to, Lyn'knoll.)

"Group" 3: Eric, Mike, Evals, probably Kathryn - Eric is going back to his merchant-shipping business, because he can't strip out and discard the slave-trading portion of it while gallivanting around in the forest. How many of the other three stay with him, I won't guess. Everyone in the group pretty much fades out of the story no matter what.

Group 4: if you want a group that intends to stick around and investigate what's happening in Edinmire, this is it. Or it may not happen. Reni, Sythe, Sealeen, her sidekick Landen, Kai, Daniels, Therie. Maybe Zen.

Yes, there are a few people in more than one group. It's called uncertainty.

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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#14 Post by Hulk10 »

I wonder how Maren will react to learning Flora is pregnant by Trace.
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Re: The Intersection of Team A & Team B

#15 Post by NuclearBird »

Hulk10 wrote: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:52 pm I wonder how Maren will react to learning Flora is pregnant by Trace.
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