Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

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Candycat
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#61 Post by Candycat »

I'm not really understanding the disgust towards this defense system. I mean, it is pretty intense, but it is Nora who's behind it. And she is more sadistic than malicious; she prefers to toy with the enemy rather than be cruel. Like that time she seduced away the templar spy-cat. Of course, cruel jokes aren't beyond her. Just remember how she punished dear old Clovis. If it were up to Trace in his previous state of mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see a much more vicious defense against the uninvited. Then again, whether or not Nora's spell changed trespassers into animals doesn't really matter too much, as it is Trace that would decide their fates, I would imagine. The prisoners wouldn't have to be animals for Trace to be the executioner. The system is just an imprisonment spell with a classic Lady Nora twist to me... :|
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#62 Post by NuclearBird »

Candycat wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:13 am I'm not really understanding the disgust towards this defense system. I mean, it is pretty intense, but it is Nora who's behind it. And she is more sadistic than malicious; she prefers to toy with the enemy rather than be cruel. Like that time she seduced away the templar spy-cat. Of course, cruel jokes aren't beyond her. Just remember how she punished dear old Clovis. If it were up to Trace in his previous state of mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see a much more vicious defense against the uninvited. Then again, whether or not Nora's spell changed trespassers into animals doesn't really matter too much, as it is Trace that would decide their fates, I would imagine. The prisoners wouldn't have to be animals for Trace to be the executioner. The system is just an imprisonment spell with a classic Lady Nora twist to me... :|
If it were Old!Trace, then the defense sytem would be more along the lines of an instant doorstep ash pile generator.
If the universe is infinite, does that mean that there is a version of me out there who's thinking the exact same thing?

While we're on the topic of alternate universes, is there one where I'm a lawyer? If yes, then I may be more evil than I thought.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#63 Post by Warrl »

Look at it this way: if the intruders are transformed into milk-cows with milk, draft or riding animals, laying hens, or sheep, they can earn their keep. And they'll be relatively safe, as it is to the manor's benefit to keep them safe. Presumably they might eventually be transformed back to their original forms and released.

If they are imprisoned in a dungeon, their upkeep will be a burden on the manor and its staff, and there will be some danger of them escaping. Long-term imprisonment in a small space is also generally not good for one's health or muscle tone, so they'll be in poor shape if-and-when released.

If they are killed, well, they'll be dead.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#64 Post by BadJoke »

Candycat wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:13 am I'm not really understanding the disgust towards this defense system. I mean, it is pretty intense, but it is Nora who's behind it. And she is more sadistic than malicious; she prefers to toy with the enemy rather than be cruel. Like that time she seduced away the templar spy-cat. Of course, cruel jokes aren't beyond her. Just remember how she punished dear old Clovis. If it were up to Trace in his previous state of mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see a much more vicious defense against the uninvited. Then again, whether or not Nora's spell changed trespassers into animals doesn't really matter too much, as it is Trace that would decide their fates, I would imagine. The prisoners wouldn't have to be animals for Trace to be the executioner. The system is just an imprisonment spell with a classic Lady Nora twist to me... :|
Warrl wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:08 pmLong-term imprisonment in a small space is also generally not good for one's health or muscle tone, so they'll be in poor shape if-and-when released.

If they are killed, well, they'll be dead.
An imprisonment spell who deprives you of your voice, your identity, your hands. That put your fate between the hands of a psycho mage adept of genocides and his maid who appears to have a mean streak, wondering day after day if you're going to end as their next meal (how do we know Trace never chose to serve an "original" food to a guest? Or even himself?). Or maybe they will just harvest the byproducts that your jail-body is now unnaturally producing as your mind, deprived of any human contact, dead for your close ones, is left sliding slowly into madness and apathy with no hope of escape nor pardon (does Trace even posses the capacity to lift the malediction of a dragon?)... Though with a bit of luck you'll age like real livestock and die only a handful of years later... if miss Nora didn't find "funny" to leave you with your original lifespan.

Give anyone the choice after a year like that and none will say no to a trip inside an instant ash pile generator. Death or "I have no mouth and I must scream"? Death every day.

Of course it's also a case of personal sensibility. Maybe I'm just biased by the fact this page gave me 3 messed up nightmares the night after I read it... (;_;)
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#65 Post by Zakkerus »

BadJoke wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:47 pm
Candycat wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:13 am I'm not really understanding the disgust towards this defense system. I mean, it is pretty intense, but it is Nora who's behind it. And she is more sadistic than malicious; she prefers to toy with the enemy rather than be cruel. Like that time she seduced away the templar spy-cat. Of course, cruel jokes aren't beyond her. Just remember how she punished dear old Clovis. If it were up to Trace in his previous state of mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see a much more vicious defense against the uninvited. Then again, whether or not Nora's spell changed trespassers into animals doesn't really matter too much, as it is Trace that would decide their fates, I would imagine. The prisoners wouldn't have to be animals for Trace to be the executioner. The system is just an imprisonment spell with a classic Lady Nora twist to me... :|
Warrl wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:08 pmLong-term imprisonment in a small space is also generally not good for one's health or muscle tone, so they'll be in poor shape if-and-when released.

If they are killed, well, they'll be dead.
An imprisonment spell who deprives you of your voice, your identity, your hands. That put your fate between the hands of a psycho mage adept of genocides and his maid who appears to have a mean streak, wondering day after day if you're going to end as their next meal (how do we know Trace never chose to serve an "original" food to a guest? Or even himself?). Or maybe they will just harvest the byproducts that your jail-body is now unnaturally producing as your mind, deprived of any human contact, dead for your close ones, is left sliding slowly into madness and apathy with no hope of escape nor pardon (does Trace even posses the capacity to lift the malediction of a dragon?)... Though with a bit of luck you'll age like real livestock and die only a handful of years later... if miss Nora didn't find "funny" to leave you with your original lifespan.

Give anyone the choice after a year like that and none will say no to a trip inside an instant ash pile generator. Death or "I have no mouth and I must scream"? Death every day.

Of course it's also a case of personal sensibility. Maybe I'm just biased by the fact this page gave me 3 messed up nightmares the night after I read it... (;_;)
I wholeheartedly agree with you, BadJoke. The whole idea of this makes me uncomfortable. Heh, honestly, I believe you and I had almost the exact same thoughts of this matter. You basically took the words from my mouth!

(Now I don't have to type out my thoughts :) )

Yeah, I have a feeling that this page will be one of those pages where Richbach never actually shows us what happens to the people, and he'll probably forget about the plotpoint and it'll shift back to main gang (so... Horrible ambiguity on two (if not more) sentient, living being's fate... Yay... :/ ). Of course, I could be dead wrong.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#66 Post by BadFoMo »

Zakkerus wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:18 pm
BadJoke wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:47 pm
Candycat wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:13 amI'm not really understanding the disgust towards this defense system. I mean, it is pretty intense, but it is Nora who's behind it. And she is more sadistic than malicious; she prefers to toy with the enemy rather than be cruel. Like that time she seduced away the templar spy-cat. Of course, cruel jokes aren't beyond her. Just remember how she punished dear old Clovis. If it were up to Trace in his previous state of mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see a much more vicious defense against the uninvited. Then again, whether or not Nora's spell changed trespassers into animals doesn't really matter too much, as it is Trace that would decide their fates, I would imagine. The prisoners wouldn't have to be animals for Trace to be the executioner. The system is just an imprisonment spell with a classic Lady Nora twist to me... :|
Warrl wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:08 pmLong-term imprisonment in a small space is also generally not good for one's health or muscle tone, so they'll be in poor shape if-and-when released.

If they are killed, well, they'll be dead.
An imprisonment spell who deprives you of your voice, your identity, your hands. That put your fate between the hands of a psycho mage adept of genocides and his maid who appears to have a mean streak, wondering day after day if you're going to end as their next meal (how do we know Trace never chose to serve an "original" food to a guest? Or even himself?). Or maybe they will just harvest the byproducts that your jail-body is now unnaturally producing as your mind, deprived of any human contact, dead for your close ones, is left sliding slowly into madness and apathy with no hope of escape nor pardon (does Trace even posses the capacity to lift the malediction of a dragon?)... Though with a bit of luck you'll age like real livestock and die only a handful of years later... if miss Nora didn't find "funny" to leave you with your original lifespan.

Give anyone the choice after a year like that and none will say no to a trip inside an instant ash pile generator. Death or "I have no mouth and I must scream"? Death every day.

Of course it's also a case of personal sensibility. Maybe I'm just biased by the fact this page gave me 3 messed up nightmares the night after I read it... (;_;)
I wholeheartedly agree with you, BadJoke. The whole idea of this makes me uncomfortable. Heh, honestly, I believe you and I had almost the exact same thoughts of this matter. You basically took the words from my mouth!

(Now I don't have to type out my thoughts :) )
I'm inclined to agree as well. In my initial reaction to the page, I didn't know exactly what all made it feel wrong/didn't know how to word it; all I knew is it seemed very wrong (and I had even less love for Lady Nora).

Anyway, BadJoke pretty much summed up my reasons for why this feels particularly evil.

Zakkerus wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:18 pmYeah, I have a feeling that this page will be one of those pages where Richbach never actually shows us what happens to the people, and he'll probably forget about the plotpoint and it'll shift back to main gang (so... Horrible ambiguity on two (if not more) sentient, living being's fate... Yay... :/ ). Of course, I could be dead wrong.
This doesn't seem like his style. I mean, I can't think of any examples of dropped plot points at the moment; so I'm left to guess that this will have some relevance later. The only things I can come up with is one or more members of Group B will accidentally trigger the manor's defense mechanism, or someone finds way past it and/or breaks it (I'm partial to this last option, but that's just me).
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#67 Post by Zakkerus »

(I kinda messed up the quoting thing, so, heh, sorry about this jumbled mess...)
An imprisonment spell who deprives you of your voice, your identity, your hands. That put your fate between the hands of a psycho mage adept of genocides and his maid who appears to have a mean streak, wondering day after day if you're going to end as their next meal (how do we know Trace never chose to serve an "original" food to a guest? Or even himself?). Or maybe they will just harvest the byproducts that your jail-body is now unnaturally producing as your mind, deprived of any human contact, dead for your close ones, is left sliding slowly into madness and apathy with no hope of escape nor pardon (does Trace even posses the capacity to lift the malediction of a dragon?)... Though with a bit of luck you'll age like real livestock and die only a handful of years later... if miss Nora didn't find "funny" to leave you with your original lifespan.

Give anyone the choice after a year like that and none will say no to a trip inside an instant ash pile generator. Death or "I have no mouth and I must scream"? Death every day.

Of course it's also a case of personal sensibility. Maybe I'm just biased by the fact this page gave me 3 messed up nightmares the night after I read it... (;_;)
I wholeheartedly agree with you, BadJoke. The whole idea of this makes me uncomfortable. Heh, honestly, I believe you and I had almost the exact same thoughts of this matter. You basically took the words from my mouth!

(Now I don't have to type out my thoughts :) )
I'm inclined to agree as well. In my initial reaction to the page, I didn't know exactly what all made it feel wrong/didn't know how to word it; all I knew is it seemed very wrong (and I had even less love for Lady Nora).

Anyway, BadJoke pretty much summed up my reasons for why this feels particularly evil.
Hey, I'm glad to hear that more people are agreeing with this.

Zakkerus wrote: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:18 pmYeah, I have a feeling that this page will be one of those pages where Richbach never actually shows us what happens to the people, and he'll probably forget about the plotpoint and it'll shift back to main gang (so... Horrible ambiguity on two (if not more) sentient, living being's fate... Yay... :/ ). Of course, I could be dead wrong.
This doesn't seem like his style. I mean, I can't think of any examples of dropped plot points at the moment; so I'm left to guess that this will have some relevance later. The only things I can come up with is one or more members of Group B will accidentally trigger the manor's defense mechanism, or someone finds way past it and/or breaks it (I'm partial to this last option, but that's just me).
I somewhat remember there being some lost or dropped plot lines or plot points in the early days of TK. Heh, remember how Flora was meant to be a magic-user and Trace was meant to be a swordsman? I think you can still find a remnant of this on one of the chapter cover art.

This might not be a "lost" plot point exactly, but the Ephemural stuff did kinda drop off the radar, and the only glimpse of it we've had in years was a small sliver of what could be their mask/face/eye on the very left corner when Reni was reading Trace's mind.

Though, maybe Richbach might've gotten better with stuff like that, so, who knows? :potatoes:

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#68 Post by whiskeyfur »

I suppose I have a very different mindset here.

Namely, they're the ones that intruded on Trace's domain, so Trace gets to decide what happens to them, pure and simple. Good, evil, doesn't matter. That is /Trace's/ home and every man has a right to defend his castle.

Evil trace? That should be even more incentive to stay the hell out of his back yard.

If someone broke into my house I'm not going to sweat and fret over the morality of shooting the guy. I'm putting the barrel of a 12 ga to his head and pulling the trigger.

Having any sympathy for the two is misplaced. They're the ones who tried to break in. Would those who sided with them also side with someone who broke into their homes as well?

And please remember.. this is a world that does not have radio, cameras and the all powerful telephone. The security that the town has, they respond to issues about the TOWN, not Trace's manor. The security system one buys for their home comes in the form of magic and paid guards, and Trace does/did have a LOT of power, and as such his defenses will reflect the level of paranoia one must have when he reaches those heights.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#69 Post by Zakkerus »

whiskeyfur wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:58 pm I suppose I have a very different mindset here.

Namely, they're the ones that intruded on Trace's domain, so Trace gets to decide what happens to them, pure and simple. Good, evil, doesn't matter. That is /Trace's/ home and every man has a right to defend his castle.

Evil trace? That should be even more incentive to stay the hell out of his back yard.

If someone broke into my house I'm not going to sweat and fret over the morality of shooting the guy. I'm putting the barrel of a 12 ga to his head and pulling the trigger.

Having any sympathy for the two is misplaced. They're the ones who tried to break in. Would those who sided with them also side with someone who broke into their homes as well?

And please remember.. this is a world that does not have radio, cameras and the all powerful telephone. The security that the town has, they respond to issues about the TOWN, not Trace's manor. The security system one buys for their home comes in the form of magic and paid guards, and Trace does/did have a LOT of power, and as such his defenses will reflect the level of paranoia one must have when he reaches those heights.
I mean, if someone broke into my house with ill intent, I'd probably have no qualms of ending them either. But this is different. You can look at BadJoke's comments to see how death would be a better fate than this. They summed it up quite well.
At least from what we know so far, death would be a better fate.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#70 Post by Ddraig »

Zakkerus wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:15 am (I kinda messed up the quoting thing, so, heh, sorry about this jumbled mess...)
[(BB code)] starts a format, while [/(that same BB code)] ends a format; just remove the / from the first quote code tag
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#71 Post by Zakkerus »

Ddraig wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:51 am
Zakkerus wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:15 am (I kinda messed up the quoting thing, so, heh, sorry about this jumbled mess...)
[(BB code)] starts a format, while [/(that same BB code)] ends a format; just remove the / from the first quote code tag
Thank you greatly for the assistance. :)

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#72 Post by Piece_of_Paper »

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#73 Post by Warrl »

Also remember that this was set up by Nora, who is normally a dragon but has no problem with temporarily being a housecat - and may well have been in various other forms on occasion.

So SHE wouldn't think that temporarily being a different shape is a big deal.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#74 Post by whiskeyfur »

Zakkerus wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:11 am ... I mean, if someone broke into my house with ill intent, I'd probably have no qualms of ending them either. But this is different. ...
I can see what you mean there but I think you're wrong about how this is different. The two did mean ill intent... so as far as I'm concerned, they got what was coming to them. Now it's up to Trace and/or Nora to decide if they get to learn from that mistake.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#75 Post by Zakkerus »

whiskeyfur wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:01 am
Zakkerus wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:11 am ... I mean, if someone broke into my house with ill intent, I'd probably have no qualms of ending them either. But this is different. ...
I can see what you mean there but I think you're wrong about how this is different. The two did mean ill intent... so as far as I'm concerned, they got what was coming to them. Now it's up to Trace and/or Nora to decide if they get to learn from that mistake.
But current Trace doesn't know about the "security" spell, and Nora is off taking a not-so-well-deserved nap.

But I somewhat doubt that this page will even come back up again, since it was meant to be "comedic" (apparently).

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