Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

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tony1695
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#46 Post by tony1695 »

Dreamfox wrote: Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:21 am
BadFoMo wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:09 am2. Did Reni know about the security system?
Considering what Nora let slip about dragons in general, I'd say it's near impossible to get anything magical near a dragon without the dragon noticing it, even if the dragon can't exactly tell what kind of magic it is.
Reni is at least a close associate of the guard in Edinmire and someone of the guard should know of the manor's defenses. Not many, but someone.
Depending on how long Reni is living in Edinmire, she may have been there when Nora put the spells in. I doubt Nora wouldn't tell a local dragon about it.
With several possibilities and Reni directly asking for permission I'd say she knows.
It seems the spell only activates if someones tries to forcibly enter the building. Seeing that Reni was simply out the front treating the fountain like a bird bath, she couldn't have triggered the defenses. She may not have even detected any sort of defenses, only knowing that it would be impolite to enter someone's home without their direct permission.
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#47 Post by Naldru »

Judging by http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/988/, Trace was known for lots of unpleasant actions and Roselyn still suspects that Trace might still be his old evil self. Is somebody seems nice and innocent, she might warn them more energetically. Turning intruders into livestock goes back a long way in mythology, as exemplified by Circe. Furthermore, people in that world live in the equivalent of Dungeons & Dragons game, and should have learned a long time ago that trying to enter a wizard's castle without permission can result in a lot of damage.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#48 Post by amenon »

Combak wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:05 am You know, a thought occurred to me... If Rose has to leave the manor to check the fields for the new arrivals, that would be the perfect time to ambush her. I guess we'll see if that's the case next week.
Oh, that's a good point. That could definitely be the play, if it actually is Brahn.

Another somewhat non-conclusive thing on what-does-Brahn-know: the cat that's spying on them didn't enter. But whether that means anything or not, I don't think the defenses are any kind of secret at all; after all, Rose was perfectly willing to explain them to someone who just came to the door :P
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#49 Post by Warrl »

amenon wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:22 amI don't think the defenses are any kind of secret at all; after all, Rose was perfectly willing to explain them to someone who just came to the door :P
We know she was trying to explain to them that there are magical defenses - which should be expected at the home of someone who is a high-ranking mage or a friend of powerful dragons, let alone both, so it's more like "don't be an idiot".

Whether she would have explained the nature of said defenses is undetermined.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#50 Post by BadJoke »

Image

... I'm think I'm gonna puke...

No, seriously, I've no problem with gore, violence, magical tortures... but here we have (in subtext) cannibalism, slavery, identity deprivation, "I have no mouth and I must scream", suicide, high level sociopathy, disappearing without leaving a trace (sorry victims' relatives)... all in one. And the more you think about it the worst it gets.
I'm gonna feel bad for the rest of the day. Hope the comic gets updated quick so this go away in the archives as fast as possible. (Yes, I AM that shocked.)

Through thinking about it I'm not even sure Tom made that to look creepy as [censored]. He may have considered it funny and harmless at the time... Both solution are possible.

Also the situation feels weird...
-> Aren't templars supposed to be a tad formed about magic? Couldn't they sense the trap? Or at least consider that their psychotic dark lord may have his house layered with hellish magical devices? (Aren't they supposed to be somewhat competent? Or a menace?...)
-> And couldn't the master seer possibly know about that? I mean he had to be somewhat close to Trace as a head templar, so he must have heard of it or at least know Trace good enough to deduce that the creep must have a slaughterhouse for a manor. And he's got a daughter that can watch over these(and we saw she is most probably watching the group so she must know a bit). Templars are powerful individuals, trained for years, they're not the kind of mooks you can waste by throwing them at hazards without care.
-> Why would he use his own men anyway? Even if there was no trap that would be at risk of putting his services and himself in the daylight by revealing a collusion with the city's attackers... He doesn't even seems to appreciate Clovis, why would he do that for him? Deal with this yourself wolf!
-> Also, if he send them and realize they didn't return, he may find another way to deal with it (using a powerful spell, digging a hole, I don't know) so there's no solution here.

Maybe they were wolves from Clovis band? (Through I don't think so, that face looked way too human. The others weren't able to imitate that this well. Even Clovis himself failed at that.)
Maybe Rose will tell Trace about that? Those guys would be more useful answering questions than being livestock (ugh, really going to puke).

PS: If this transformation stuff was to be revealed, would that result in Trace and Rose being condemned (or at least be charged) for cannibalism/forced transformation...? Apart of having everyone of group A puke and suffer some massive psychological trauma, that's it (because they all ate something cooked inside the manor...).
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#51 Post by Ddraig »

BadJoke wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:52 am
Spoiler!
Image
... I'm think I'm gonna puke...

No, seriously, I've no problem with gore, violence, magical tortures... but here we have (in subtext) cannibalism, slavery, identity deprivation, "I have no mouth and I must scream", suicide, high level sociopathy, disappearing without leaving a trace (sorry victims' relatives)... all in one. And the more you think about it the worst it gets.
I'm gonna feel bad for the rest of the day. Hope the comic gets updated quick so this go away in the archives as fast as possible. (Yes, I AM that shocked.)

Through thinking about it I'm not even sure Tom made that to look creepy as [censored]. He may have considered it funny and harmless at the time... Both solution are possible.

Also the situation feels weird...
-> Aren't templars supposed to be a tad formed about magic? Couldn't they sense the trap? Or at least consider that their psychotic dark lord may have his house layered with hellish magical devices? (Aren't they supposed to be somewhat competent? Or a menace?...)
-> And couldn't the master seer possibly know about that? I mean he had to be somewhat close to Trace as a head templar, so he must have heard of it or at least know Trace good enough to deduce that the creep must have a slaughterhouse for a manor. And he's got a daughter that can watch over these(and we saw she is most probably watching the group so she must know a bit). Templars are powerful individuals, trained for years, they're not the kind of mooks you can waste by throwing them at hazards without care.
-> Why would he use his own men anyway? Even if there was no trap that would be at risk of putting his services and himself in the daylight by revealing a collusion with the city's attackers... He doesn't even seems to appreciate Clovis, why would he do that for him? Deal with this yourself wolf!
-> Also, if he send them and realize they didn't return, he may find another way to deal with it (using a powerful spell, digging a hole, I don't know) so there's no solution here.

Maybe they were wolves from Clovis band? (Through I don't think so, that face looked way too human. The others weren't able to imitate that this well. Even Clovis himself failed at that.)
Maybe Rose will tell Trace about that? Those guys would be more useful answering questions than being livestock (ugh, really going to puke).

PS: If this transformation stuff was to be revealed, would that result in Trace and Rose being condemned (or at least be charged) for cannibalism/forced transformation...? Apart of having everyone of group A puke and suffer some massive psychological trauma, that's it (because they all ate something cooked inside the manor...).
TBH, I'm leaning toward the "templars" being Carver-esque agents of Clovis, mostly because of their target. I can see why Brann might want him as well, though.

As for the transformation: I doubt socially Trace & Co would be in trouble for it; the transformees were, after all, trying to force their way into the Duke's Mansion without permission. Thieves/criminals weren't looked upon very kindly in the era 2k is based on.
Also, we don't yet know that they aren't only turned into passive food/etc.-source animals (hens, milk cows/goats, sheep, etc.), nor even that they remain conscious of what's going on (vice just becoming an animal mind) so I wouldn't go vomiting all over the computer just yet. Aside from being put into a different body, it wouldn't be that different from regular imprisonment. TBH, it's probably looked on (in Mekkan world) as better than just killing all intruders.
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#52 Post by Warrl »

If intruders are consistently turned into livestock, that probably would make escape pretty much impossible.

The only people who would know they are transformed humans (and thus might, under some circumstances, TRY to get them changed back) are the people at the manor and perhaps some other Templar. And Trace was a high-ranking Templar, perhaps Grand Templar, when this enchantment was laid, so the Templar would report to him.

So a successful escape would mean they remain farm animals for the rest of their lives. If they retain human consciousness, that would be an undesirable outcome.

(Although if they suspect that they've ticked off the manor residents to the point that they're on the short list for butchering...)

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#53 Post by Schrodinger »

I think a lot of you are forgetting that this is Lady Nora's work. She's known for this. If anyone would be that far above human laws and morality it would be a dragon with a foul sense of humor.
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#54 Post by Panther »

A question suddenly : these guys are really templars or Clovis's men , come to "save" the wolf ? Seeing how they're clothed , i wouldn't be surprised
Man is a wolf for man ........ Don't insult the wolves :natani:

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#55 Post by Warrl »

There is some suspicion that they are lying about being under Brahn's orders.

I seriously doubt that Clovis would send someone to rescue Natani. Take him captive, yes. But not rescue.

Or they could simply be locals determined to curb-stomp all wolf-keidran.

Or... um... some other explanation that I haven't thought of.

(Question: have we seen an ordinary, non-keidran, canid or felid in this comic?)

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#56 Post by Cpt.Obvious »

Warrl wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:10 pm(Question: have we seen an ordinary, non-keidran, canid or felid in this comic?)
I can't remember any dogs, but there are cats. Nora used the form of a cat to lure away the cat that the sages daughter (?) was using to spy on Trace. Apparently important things, such as chasing after a cute queen in heat, overrides the will of whoever tries to control a tom. I'm a bit surprised he hadn't already found a warm spot to sleep in to be more important than staring at a boring human...

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#57 Post by MuonNeutrino »

Warrl wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:10 pmI seriously doubt that Clovis would send someone to rescue Natani. Take him captive, yes. But not rescue.
I'm pretty sure Panther was talking about the wolf from Clovis' gang who was captured, not Natani. And I could definitely see Clovis trying to get him back, given how annoyed he was to have had one of his men captured in the first place. Of course, if that is what happened, now he's got *three* men captured. :grin:
(Question: have we seen an ordinary, non-keidran, canid or felid in this comic?)
Well, the Seer's Daughter has been seen associated with cats a couple times now. Of course, a cat under the control of the Seer's Daughter isn't really an ordinary cat anymore, but it *does* imply that ordinary cats are a thing that exists. As for canids, while I don't think we've seen them, Maren's statement here confirms that ordinary dogs exist as well.
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#58 Post by Zakkerus »

Schrodinger wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:02 pm I think a lot of you are forgetting that this is Lady Nora's work. She's known for this. If anyone would be that far above human laws and morality it would be a dragon with a foul sense of humor.
Plot twist: Nora is actually a playful, yet sadistic incarnation of pure evil. (Like Majin Buu from DBZ.)

But, yeah, I'll have to agree with BadJoke on this one. I get that Richbach probably intended for this to be funny and all, but the more o think about it, the more uncomfortable I get with the idea.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#59 Post by Panther »

MuonNeutrino wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:00 pm
Warrl wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:10 pmI seriously doubt that Clovis would send someone to rescue Natani. Take him captive, yes. But not rescue.
I'm pretty sure Panther was talking about the wolf from Clovis' gang who was captured, not Natani. And I could definitely see Clovis trying to get him back, given how annoyed he was to have had one of his men captured in the first place. Of course, if that is what happened, now he's got *three* men captured. :grin:
Yea , you're right
Man is a wolf for man ........ Don't insult the wolves :natani:

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#60 Post by Sleel »

HA! Hahahahahahaha

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