Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

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Meribah
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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#46 Post by Meribah »

I'm liking this new, freer Natani. It looks good on 'em! :)

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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#47 Post by UltraFennec »

Alcohol does some pretty heady things, I can attest from experience.

It also produces things you regret later on! We'll see which this becomes, but I really doubt this is the new default mode for either of them. They'll sober up and the inhibitions and worries will come back in full force, if not greater.
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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#48 Post by Phaing »

UltraFennec wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 12:37 am...
It also produces things you regret later on! We'll see which this becomes, but I really doubt this is the new default mode for either of them. They'll sober up and the inhibitions and worries will come back in full force, if not greater.
I hope not.
Chars should grow and mature, and these two have plenty of other issues to deal with.

Have you wondered just how ugly things might get when they are reunited with the 'B Team'?

And then there is that lunatic semi-Dragon... when she busts out of the cooler, I sure wouldn't want to be Keith.
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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#49 Post by Warrl »

This seems plausible to me. Not obvious, but plausible. Natani wants to explore just how far he can push his new self-acceptance... although if there's some boundary he's made a conscious decision to not try to go past, I hope he communicates that well in advance.

Natani would probably know there's no chance of him becoming pregnant at this time (too long since his previous estrus and not yet time for the next one), even though Flora's pregnancy by Trace gives them cause to wonder if keidran/basitin relationships are necessarily sterile. So if he is willing in principle to go that far, and doesn't hit an emotional limit first, there's no compelling reason not to do it now.

I would add that I'm not sure whether Natani is primarily exploring his relationship with Keith, or using Keith to explore his relationship with himself. (I think he's exploring each of those relationships to some degree.)

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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#50 Post by GaySailors »

Keith has always been rather... embarrassed, I guess. He clearly loves Natani, but he gets flustered by her often, and has yet to make an advance or imply anything greater. Natani has put forward for everything, but Keith hasn't backed away. But, he was ready to admit they were in a relationship after their second kiss, even when Natani wasn't. He has no issues with loving her. I want to say he'd be too flustered and think everything is going too quick, but honestly, if she puts a hand on his thigh, I can't see him saying no. He loves Natani, and even before the tavern incident in the Isles. Natani is exploring her new identity and her relationship with Keith, and Keith is just willing to go along wherever she wants to take it imo

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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#51 Post by Nova »

I'm not perfectly happy with that page. Natani was really "unfavorable" of her feminine parts, and all that should change THAT fast? I mean, okay, it's Keith, so some kind of joke about them is pretty much sensible. But then really asking him that? How much should Natani have drunk for that to be not out of character?
The other thing is Keith's expression in the second-to-last panel. Keith pouting like that? Was that ever the case in the rest of the comic?

It's not a bad page, but I'm slightly dubious about how it should fit. The next page has to explain that, and I will personally go to Tom and eat his breakfast if there's a scene change! :mrgrin:

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ZeroJinKui
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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#52 Post by ZeroJinKui »

Nova wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 5:43 am I'm not perfectly happy with that page. Natani was really "unfavorable" of her feminine parts, and all that should change THAT fast? I mean, okay, it's Keith, so some kind of joke about them is pretty much sensible. But then really asking him that? How much should Natani have drunk for that to be not out of character?
The other thing is Keith's expression in the second-to-last panel. Keith pouting like that? Was that ever the case in the rest of the comic?

It's not a bad page, but I'm slightly dubious about how it should fit. The next page has to explain that, and I will personally go to Tom and eat his breakfast if there's a scene change! :mrgrin:
well, natani has obviously been into keith for awhile now, and after learning how crazy keith was going when natani was in a coma, plus the development with young natani and accepting who they were, etc... plus FINALLY being able to relax with each other and not have to worry about anything, in a private and comfortable room... i don't see it as out of character, at all.

it's character development... what, you want natani to be drowning in denial and self-loathing for another 10 years before they go beyond kissing and acting like shy children?
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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#53 Post by Elemental Templar »

Phaing wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 1:24 am
UltraFennec wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 12:37 am...
It also produces things you regret later on! We'll see which this becomes, but I really doubt this is the new default mode for either of them. They'll sober up and the inhibitions and worries will come back in full force, if not greater.
I hope not.
Chars should grow and mature, and these two have plenty of other issues to deal with.

Have you wondered just how ugly things might get when they are reunited with the 'B Team'?

And then there is that lunatic semi-Dragon... when she busts out of the cooler, I sure wouldn't want to be Keith.
I agree, The fact that there's so much growth and development with Keith and Natani's relationship is one of my favorite things about the story in Twokinds. As for the B-Team and Seraphina:
We all know that the two groups reuniting is almost inevitable and I can't wait for that to happen.

And..., even if Seraphina somehow manages to escape she no longer has her powers because Keith destroyed her pendant, and she doesn't even know where he is.
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Those who wait for change, and those who make changes themselves. Which one are you?" -Anonymous

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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#54 Post by GaySailors »

I agree with Zero, I don't really see how it's that out of place. After everything thats happened, I just don't see it as a suprise.

On the uniting with Team B thing, I'm also really excited. Mostly because I want Keith and Natani to get together by then, so when Keith meets Zen, they'll be some fun :grin: Probably won't be fun for Keith though

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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#55 Post by FishWeave »

I'm having a hard time seeing Natani as a transgender male anymore. It feels more like the character was just insecure about being female and wanted to be seen as a guy because the wolves seem to normally see women as weaker. I know plenty of women women who are strong and have a personality that could get them considered 'one of the guys'. My mother is one of those strong women that I know like that. If Natani is fine with being a woman, if this character doesn't even care if people see them showing as a female anymore... how are they male? I am thinking perhaps when the mind is fixed, their soul might look closer to female than male. Right now their mind has one piece that's female, and the main one that presents as male- unless they are feeling weak.

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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#56 Post by Warrl »

FishWeave wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 7:30 pm I'm having a hard time seeing Natani as a transgender male anymore. It feels more like the character was just insecure about being female and wanted to be seen as a guy because the wolves seem to normally see women as weaker.
Well, we have it explicitly - aside from the risk of an unreliable narrator - that the part of Natani's soul that provides gender identity was ripped away, and what Natani has in that space is a copy/patch of Zen. And therefore presumptively male.

That would make Nat transgender. Unless you want to argue that Nat's own soul grew back according to its original pattern, rather than in accordance with the graft.

However, Nat being transgender doesn't automatically mean a total rejection of femaleness. Things come in degrees. I don't think that Zen is absolutely 100% cisgender 0% transgender. I don't think Nat was before the incident, either. So I don't think Nat is absolutely 100% trans 0% cis now.

And at least part of Nat's aversion to being female WAS culture-based. He's since spent a good deal of time among those who don't see females as automatically weak. He's seen definitively strong females (King Adelade and, in her own odd way, Maddie, for two whom he could easily recognize and respect the strength of). He's seen Kat stand up to Eric, when she was not only female but also a slave. He's survived and repeatedly proven himself strong even with a certain vulnerability that most male keidran don't have. And then there's the dreamscape conversation.

Even before that, Zen hasn't treated him as weak and helpless for years - they were a genuine partnership of equals.

So there's plenty of reason to think that maybe Nat is still trans but learning to accept, rather than grudgingly tolerate, the fact that his body is female.

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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#57 Post by BadFoMo »

Is it weird for me to be agreeing that their relationship is going too fast, yet at the same time believing that there is no other speed for it to go?
Nova wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 5:43 am...and I will personally go to Tom and eat his breakfast if there's a scene change! :mrgrin:
Funny you should mention that, I'm actually sensing a switch over to someone else.
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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#58 Post by CrRAR »

BadFoMo wrote: Tue May 30, 2017 1:56 am Is it weird for me to be agreeing that their relationship is going too fast, yet at the same time believing that there is no other speed for it to go?
I think it's okay, in fact in quantum mechanics holding two positions simultaneously is known as superposition, which is obviously, uhh, SUPER. So...yeah, there's that.

I also think Tom is the master of two steps forward and one step back and maybe we will reach a happy medium? Everyone can be happy (Youngtani included). Regardless of where this goes, I honestly would follow these two anywhere their relationship took them. :P


...and for those questioning Natani's sudden forwardness here he has been known historically to be quite gregarious while intoxicated.
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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#59 Post by FishWeave »

Warrl wrote: Mon May 29, 2017 11:17 pm Well, we have it explicitly - aside from the risk of an unreliable narrator - that the part of Natani's soul that provides gender identity was ripped away, and what Natani has in that space is a copy/patch of Zen. And therefore presumptively male.

That would make Nat transgender. Unless you want to argue that Nat's own soul grew back according to its original pattern, rather than in accordance with the graft.

However, Nat being transgender doesn't automatically mean a total rejection of femaleness. Things come in degrees. I don't think that Zen is absolutely 100% cisgender 0% transgender. I don't think Nat was before the incident, either. So I don't think Nat is absolutely 100% trans 0% cis now.

And at least part of Nat's aversion to being female WAS culture-based. He's since spent a good deal of time among those who don't see females as automatically weak. He's seen definitively strong females (King Adelade and, in her own odd way, Maddie, for two whom he could easily recognize and respect the strength of). He's seen Kat stand up to Eric, when she was not only female but also a slave. He's survived and repeatedly proven himself strong even with a certain vulnerability that most male keidran don't have. And then there's the dreamscape conversation.

Even before that, Zen hasn't treated him as weak and helpless for years - they were a genuine partnership of equals.

So there's plenty of reason to think that maybe Nat is still trans but learning to accept, rather than grudgingly tolerate, the fact that his body is female.
If all of Natanis soul was male, the new part of the soul we were introduced to wouldn't be so female. Also, Zen loves his sibling, but that doesn't mean he didn't have some amount of bias. Even he had some amount of bias, as unintentional as it was. The wolf culture Natani grew in however was the kind where the two wouldn't get hired for work if anyone knew natanis sex was female. Yes, when healing the gender part of the soul was one of the damaged parts, but that didn't actually cause that character to act masculine as they do. At the same time, they have been acting a lot more comfortable in their own skin. I know transgender people who are so uncomfortable with the sex not matching their gender that they have self harmed. While not all that high up self harm, it is a good example of how hugging it out with a piece of your soul wouldn't change that. Also, no parts of their inner identity would appear as the sex of their body. This means at least a portion of that identity is tied in that bias. The part of the soul that Natani connected to doesn't want them to wear a frilly dress or anything- and not all women like wearing dresses in the first place. At the same time, they also tried to get it into Natani that while they have always had a masculine side, they also always had a repressed feminine side. I am having an easier time seeing natani as bigender than as someone with a strictly male soul and identity. Also, there is some evidence that Zens views did effect how natani saw themself. This page made me especially skeptical about natani being a transgender male. Natani is talking like the male mind in a female body doesn't matter at all- something I have never heard a transgender person say, certainly not something I would ever say either. I'm starting to have a hard time imagining Natani as having a purely male gender identity anymore. It just doesn't feel that way.

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Re: Comic for May 27th, 2017: Realizing the Perks

#60 Post by TinyVoices »

Am I seriously the only one who still thinks that Keith and Natani having sex would be grossly inappropriate given Natani's backstory?

Nat spent several years being strongly opposed to her body. Going so far as to not even seek any form of sexual release during estrus. She has spent most of her screen time displaying her hatred for her body, but now that she had a 5 minute conversation with her imagination while in a coma she's A-ok with being female? But more so, to such an extent to have sex with Keith?

The hell is this?

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