"King" of the Bastions

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Shar
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"King" of the Bastions

#1 Post by Shar »

I don't know if this was ever revealed but its something i've been curious about. Is the Bastion leader always female? We know that they are a much more gender equal society than the others we have seen but that begs the question, is there "King" always really a queen or is it just that a female is on the throne as of now? It really could be either as even in real history there were woman leaders that demanded to be called "King" feeling that it was a superior title. Queen Hatsheput of Egypt (who would be very insulted that we call her that now) even had a fake beard made to show that she was really a king.

Granted however the real world examples did this due to the massive gender inequality of there time which brings the question to bear. Is the king always really a queen and if the bastion people consider both equal than why take the gender-swap title?
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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#2 Post by ToastWithJam »

Shar wrote: Thu May 04, 2017 9:00 pm I don't know if this was ever revealed but its something i've been curious about. Is the Bastion leader always female? We know that they are a much more gender equal society than the others we have seen but that begs the question, is there "King" always really a queen or is it just that a female is on the throne as of now? It really could be either as even in real history there were woman leaders that demanded to be called "King" feeling that it was a superior title. Queen Hatsheput of Egypt (who would be very insulted that we call her that now) even had a fake beard made to show that she was really a king.

Granted however the real world examples did this due to the massive gender inequality of there time which brings the question to bear. Is the king always really a queen and if the bastion people consider both equal than why take the gender-swap title?
Basitin monarchy is primarily based around ability in combat, based on what we can infer from Chapters 11, 12 and 13. Whoever's the strongest, leads. There's no gender-specific role but it's likely that Adelaide is something of an anomaly based on what we've seen of other female Basitins. And of course they wouldn't question it given their genetic hard-coding to respect authority.

Succession seems to be based on challenging the King and besting them, same with the Generals.

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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#3 Post by Lordadmiral Drake »

Given that in Basitin culture "King" is more a military rank than a royal title, and rank is based on ones abilities and strength there would be both male and female Kings
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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#4 Post by Shar »

Those are both actually really good responses :grin:
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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#5 Post by GaySailors »

I agree. When they use the word King, they likely mean so as a general status, regardless of sex or any other factor. Plus, when Keith was on trial, we saw that there we're indeed females on court, so it's probably less focused on her being a her.

I think someone exclaimed "That's one tall Basitin" when they saw the King. So, probably some mix of hierarchy and strength as a person. That'd also help explain why Maddie isn't treated as a princess, but rather a solider like anyone else. A smaller, cuter soldier.

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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#6 Post by Warrl »

Maddie's role in that courtroom is a major reason I think she's significantly older than she claimed (13).

They'd just lost several generals, including the Intelligence General, the day before. And the judges in the trial were supposed to be the generals.

Maddie was there as, for the purpose of the trial, the Intelligence General.

A 13-year-old as the Intelligence General? Basitin age like humans. I don't see it. For that matter, I don't see a kid that age being "one of the best spies the Basitin have to offer" as Maddie is described on the cast page: they lack both experience and advanced training.

Maddie, specifically, as the Intelligence General? I don't see that either, regardless of age. Too undisciplined. An Intelligence General fit for the responsibilities of that position probably wouldn't even consider leaving the island to follow Keith, and definitely wouldn't leave without both getting the King's permission and delegating his/her responsibilities and authority to subordinates. (Heck, Maddie shouldn't have left without getting permission. She actually left in a manner calculated to prevent anyone from having an opportunity to deny - or give - permission.)

So, then, why Maddie at the trial? A plausible explanation is easy enough. The question of who would be the Intelligence General wasn't settled yet. None of the major contenders would have been willing to stand aside and let another major contender represent the division in such a prominent way. So they needed to find a compromise - someone who is clearly not a contender, that they can jointly delegate that specific responsibility to - but who is respected and trusted enough that all of them would be willing to delegate the task to that person, and the generals of the other divisions wouldn't feel that the person was unsuitable.

I can't see a 13-year-old being such a person, even with being the King's daughter. Maddie wouldn't have been acceptable, imho, if she were not the King's daughter.

I think she's almost certainly at least 16, and probably at least 19.

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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#7 Post by GaySailors »

Warrl wrote: Sat May 06, 2017 1:59 am Maddie's role in that courtroom is a major reason I think she's significantly older than she claimed (13).

They'd just lost several generals, including the Intelligence General, the day before. And the judges in the trial were supposed to be the generals.

Maddie was there as, for the purpose of the trial, the Intelligence General.

A 13-year-old as the Intelligence General? Basitin age like humans. I don't see it. For that matter, I don't see a kid that age being "one of the best spies the Basitin have to offer" as Maddie is described on the cast page: they lack both experience and advanced training.

Maddie, specifically, as the Intelligence General? I don't see that either, regardless of age. Too undisciplined. An Intelligence General fit for the responsibilities of that position probably wouldn't even consider leaving the island to follow Keith, and definitely wouldn't leave without both getting the King's permission and delegating his/her responsibilities and authority to subordinates. (Heck, Maddie shouldn't have left without getting permission. She actually left in a manner calculated to prevent anyone from having an opportunity to deny - or give - permission.)

So, then, why Maddie at the trial? A plausible explanation is easy enough. The question of who would be the Intelligence General wasn't settled yet. None of the major contenders would have been willing to stand aside and let another major contender represent the division in such a prominent way. So they needed to find a compromise - someone who is clearly not a contender, that they can jointly delegate that specific responsibility to - but who is respected and trusted enough that all of them would be willing to delegate the task to that person, and the generals of the other divisions wouldn't feel that the person was unsuitable.

I can't see a 13-year-old being such a person, even with being the King's daughter. Maddie wouldn't have been acceptable, imho, if she were not the King's daughter.

I think she's almost certainly at least 16, and probably at least 19.
It's likely due to her being the daughter of the King, and nothing more. With a hierarchy of sorts in place, I think it would be likely to try to fill the rolls as quickly as possible. It's also important to note the hard lifestyle they have. For a modern 13 year old it seems crazy, but the daughter of a King in a strict military regime might have more political and fighting experience than originally thought simply by existing. It's also to point out she's one of the best spies. One of the only spies. I don't think there would be many in a military solely placed on combat strength and 1 to 1 fighting, and having the King's offspring not even be in the military would cause shock. So, use her advantages, name her an infiltrator, and problem solved. She might be young, but she's been specially and strictly trained. Might make her seem older than she really is. Her status as a princess gives her higher authority then others. With the King considered dead at that point, her political status could potentially render her as King-To-Be, and I'm sure she would have tried to get herself on the Jury, it's Keith after all.

The genetics of her is a bit strange. Her mother is very tall, yet she's small. Either Daddy was a bit less of a man than others or she simply hasn't grown enough. Either way, its way to close to call if she's above the age of 13. She wrote a legal doccument, but it was covered with hearts and talking about how awesome the event was. She was on the court, but had little influence on the original standings. She's childish and clumsy, but manipulative and smart. It's really a toss up. She's either an elitist child growing into the world with the money behind her teachings, or an older Basitin who acts younger and is an anomaly of biology.

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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#8 Post by Hulk10 »

Interesting that 'king' is a military rank to the Basitins.
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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#9 Post by AmigaDragon »

Who are these "Bastions" people keep talking about? :wink:
GaySailors wrote: Sat May 06, 2017 3:27 am
Warrl wrote: Sat May 06, 2017 1:59 am Maddie's role in that courtroom is a major reason I think she's significantly older than she claimed (13).

...

So, then, why Maddie at the trial? A plausible explanation is easy enough. The question of who would be the Intelligence General wasn't settled yet. None of the major contenders would have been willing to stand aside and let another major contender represent the division in such a prominent way. So they needed to find a compromise - someone who is clearly not a contender, that they can jointly delegate that specific responsibility to - but who is respected and trusted enough that all of them would be willing to delegate the task to that person, and the generals of the other divisions wouldn't feel that the person was unsuitable.
It's likely due to her being the daughter of the King, and nothing more. With a hierarchy of sorts in place, I think it would be likely to try to fill the rolls as quickly as possible. It's also important to note the hard lifestyle they have. For a modern 13 year old it seems crazy, but the daughter of a King in a strict military regime might have more political and fighting experience than originally thought simply by existing. It's also to point out she's one of the best spies. One of the only spies. I don't think there would be many in a military solely placed on combat strength and 1 to 1 fighting, and having the King's offspring not even be in the military would cause shock. So, use her advantages, name her an infiltrator, and problem solved. She might be young, but she's been specially and strictly trained. Might make her seem older than she really is. Her status as a princess gives her higher authority then others. With the King considered dead at that point, her political status could potentially render her as King-To-Be, and I'm sure she would have tried to get herself on the Jury, it's Keith after all.

The genetics of her is a bit strange. Her mother is very tall, yet she's small. Either Daddy was a bit less of a man than others or she simply hasn't grown enough. Either way, its way to close to call if she's above the age of 13. She wrote a legal doccument, but it was covered with hearts and talking about how awesome the event was. She was on the court, but had little influence on the original standings. She's childish and clumsy, but manipulative and smart. It's really a toss up. She's either an elitist child growing into the world with the money behind her teachings, or an older Basitin who acts younger and is an anomaly of biology.
Maddie's role in the court was as a witness or possibly legal representative, instigated by Alaric to help his friend. Her presence (anywhere, anytime) is I think generally tolerated because she's the King's daughter. If she's causing real trouble they'll report it, if she's just annoying, they'll let it slide.
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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#10 Post by Warrl »

AmigaDragon wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:38 amMaddie's role in the court was as a witness or possibly legal representative, instigated by Alaric to help his friend. Her presence (anywhere, anytime) is I think generally tolerated because she's the King's daughter. If she's causing real trouble they'll report it, if she's just annoying, they'll let it slide.
She was seated among the judges. That says to me that, for the purpose of that trial, she was functioning as the Intelligence general, or some role of nearly-equivalent stature. (Yeah, the behavior of several of the judges, including her, seemed to not clearly recognize the distinctions between judge, witness, prosecutor, and defense attorney.) And nobody seemed surprised or offended by it. Not like "Intelligence sent the king's brat!?!?!?".

She's a lieutenant, which is a significant rank in medieval-style armies, and one of the Basitins' best spies. Those aren't the sort of label that get applied, in a military meritocracy where even the King is subject to challenge, to someone who is merely "tolerated" because of family connections.

I would also add that at the beginning of the trial it was believed that the King was dead, so Maddie didn't have any family connection providing meaningful protection.

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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#11 Post by aitaituo »

The basitins don't have nobility. Maddie would have no more authority than Ivanka Trump. Alabaster's son had to fight his way to the top to be able to preside in Keith's trial and presumably Maddie did too. There's never been a suggestion that the famous Basitin meritocracy is in any way nominal.

I also don't buy that she's 13. It doesn't make a lot of sense, whereas her claiming to be 13 makes tons of sense.

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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#12 Post by SpottedKitty »

aitaituo wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:43 pm I also don't buy that she's 13. It doesn't make a lot of sense, whereas her claiming to be 13 makes tons of sense.
Not entirely decided yet, but I think I agree. I remember at least a couple of times now we've seen Maddie reveal something to Flora and Trace, and she's got a scheming little smirk when she's sure no-one's watching her — she's got to be Up To Something™.
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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#13 Post by AmigaDragon »

Ask Lynn, maybe he'll tell us her actual age.
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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#14 Post by Warrl »

AmigaDragon wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:07 am Ask Lynn, maybe he'll tell us her actual age.
He certainly shouldn't tell anyone except maybe Keith.

And even if Keith asks, he should argue against answering. "She is a highly effective spy and Intelligence operative. She earned the rank of Lieutenant. Why do you need to know how old she is?"

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Re: "King" of the Bastions

#15 Post by Shar »

Warrl wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:39 pm
AmigaDragon wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:07 am Ask Lynn, maybe he'll tell us her actual age.
He certainly shouldn't tell anyone except maybe Keith.

And even if Keith asks, he should argue against answering. "She is a highly effective spy and Intelligence operative. She earned the rank of Lieutenant. Why do you need to know how old she is?"
Because she works for you and bastions have an obsessive need to follow orders? he could just order her to do so.... HOWEVER...... I actually believe shes just a kid. After all the queen (King) apparently isn't very old so if shes really her daughter which we have no reason to disbelieve than she couldn't be very old.
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