Comic for April 5, 2017: Heavy Raine

[NiWo21k]

... Raine can put it on...

Thats something i am thinking about... Would she or could it happen that she maybe starts to feel comfortable how she is or she even accept what she is?

I mean, yes at the moment its still something she is definitiv not happy with, but i have more the feeling its because she doesnt want to been seen this way and thinks about what other people say (lets face it in a world where so many people hate keidran its not so good to been seen as one). But now that even Maren is starting to warm up a little to them and even Red tries to look over it (yes i know what he said, but i think he is also trying to get over his prejudice) and maybe when she meets with Natani it could be that she sees it from another perspective.

Also we dont know her full potential of her powers. There could be a time where she will be able to control it without it.

Ok, i will admit its a lot of ifs and Tom can go every route, but in my eyes this is something that could happen...

[IHeartMaeve]

(It doesn't work the same way on her NOW because after it was damaged and she repaired the rune, it was applied to Zen. Not her.)

Not so. I believe what she said was "(It) can suppress Zen's magic just as well as mine." Thus, that implies that it will work on anyone, regardless of who wears it first.

[Warrl]

(It doesn't work the same way on her NOW because after it was damaged and she repaired the rune, it was applied to Zen. Not her.)

Not so. I believe what she said was "(It) can suppress Zen's magic just as well as mine." Thus, that implies that it will work on anyone, regardless of who wears it first.

What I meant by "the same way" is that, prior to it being damaged, it apparently would suppress her magic even when she was not actually wearing it - as long as it was closed. There are at least two separate examples: one in the tavern, and one when it was hanging on a branch immediately before it was damaged.

At present, it is closed, but NOT suppressing her magic. (Yes, it's suppressing Zen's. That's a different question, and a potential complication in regard to her being able to use it later... unless of course she deliberately damages and repairs the runes.)

[Cpt.Obvious]

That is a good observation, and here is an example of the shackles affecting Raine even when someone else is holding them.

[Hayate]

That is a good observation, and here is an example of the shackles affecting Raine even when someone else is holding them.

Hmm, I'd kinda forgotten about that page... It does sorta clash with how we know the shackles work today. Though I guess her transformations there could have been coincidental...

[NiWo21k]

Hmm, I'd kinda forgotten about that page... It does sorta clash with how we know the shackles work today. Though I guess her transformations there could have been coincidental...

I am not so sure... If i recall correctly (havent checked it out) she said it supressed her magic and helped her to stay in one form (and she didnt enchanted the shackles, so they were made to let her stay human - she said that her keidran form was her normal form). After they were damaged she talked with Red and said she can repair them (to be human again) or change the enchantment to supress all magic that Zen might use.

So in my eyes: she changed the magic on them so they can function another way. Its not the same as the beginning where we first saw what happend.

[SirJahar]

The transformation is a an act of magic, one she can't control due to lack of training. It wasalways a magiv suppressor, keeping her from being able to transform was the intention even if it did keep her from using other spells as well.
Way I see it: its still a magic suppressor, just not bound to her, but rather whoever is wearing it at the time.

[Warrl]

The transformation is a an act of magic, one she can't control due to lack of training.

Evidence - specifically the fact that opening and closing the shackle (previously) caused her to shift - suggests that her being wolf-form is an act of magic. Suppress the magic, and she is human - leave it loose, and she's at significant risk of fur.

So now they're sleeping next to a pool where magic wells up from the earth... I suspect it would be nearly-impossible for her to change to human, unless some sort of magic suppressor is applied to HER.

On the other hand, what better place for a little bit of the Zen-Natani link to leak past the magic suppressor? (But, of course, not enough of it.)

[SirJahar]

Well, shebcould tramsform back, too, since going either way is a spell, basicly. Or end up with (near-)perminate effects. Like a humam's abillity to draw many even when fluffy.

[Warrl]

What I'm saying is that based on the available evidence, in the specific case of Raine being human or wolf or hybrid, her changing forms is not always a spell. That she will spontaneously change to wolf-form, no spell required, if there's enough ambient magical energy, and spontaneously change to human form if there is insufficient energy or if her access to it is cut off by an inhibitor.

If her transforming from wolf to human always took a spell, then closing the shackle would have prevented her from making that change - not caused it.

On the other hand, her changing forms by other means - e.g. changing to human by her own will, without an inhibitor - might take a spell. Which might take additional energy, and/or some training/experience, to get right.

[Ddraig]

What I'm saying is that based on the available evidence, in the specific case of Raine being human or wolf or hybrid, her changing forms is not always a spell. That she will spontaneously change to wolf-form, no spell required, if there's enough ambient magical energy, and spontaneously change to human form if there is insufficient energy or if her access to it is cut off by an inhibitor.

If her transforming from wolf to human always took a spell, then closing the shackle would have prevented her from making that change - not caused it.

On the other hand, her changing forms by other means - e.g. changing to human by her own will, without an inhibitor - might take a spell. Which might take additional energy, and/or some training/experience, to get right.

It depends on the original mechanism the shackle operated on - Raine deliberately changed it to suppress any magic of the wearer when she put it on Zen. What it was before that we don't know for sure.
What we do know about pre-alteration shackle:

1. It was intrinsically linked to Raine (or at least the last wearer)
2. Open shackle = wolf, closed shackle = human
3. its effect was independent of who opened/closed it

Maybes:

1. The shackle may not have had anything to do with magic suppression at all, but merely locked Raine into one form depending on its position
2. Wolf form Raine is the 'magical' state of Raine, and the shackle WAS a magic suppression device
3. (corollary to 1)Neither form is inherently magical, but the transformation is (and the shackle was keyed each way in addition to being magical suppression)
4. (corollary to 2)Raine naturally has a ton of magical energy, and has to specifically and deliberately control it to prevent magical leak-off affecting her form

4 being true would make near the wellspring an almost impossible place for her to maintain human form, likely even with training she doesn't have at the moment, but 3 would make the well irrelevant

I miss anything big?

[Warrl]

Raine has little-to-no formal training in magic. How much she picked up from Mom is not known... but that isn't exactly the background to go making significant alterations in magical runes.

She actually says that she fixed it - not altered it. And that it suppresses magic.

Also, immediately after fixing it, it had no effect on her while she wasn't wearing it. This hints that maybe it gets attuned to the first person it's put on after it's complete (and her fix was basically to fill in the crack and re-complete the runes). Or something equivalent to that.

[Ddraig]

Raine has little-to-no formal training in magic. How much she picked up from Mom is not known... but that isn't exactly the background to go making significant alterations in magical runes.

She actually says that she fixed it - not altered it. And that it suppresses magic.

Also, immediately after fixing it, it had no effect on her while she wasn't wearing it. This hints that maybe it gets attuned to the first person it's put on after it's complete (and her fix was basically to fill in the crack and re-complete the runes). Or something equivalent to that.

I stand corrected; I guess that only leaves

Maybes:

1. The shackle may not have had anything to do with magic suppression at all, but merely locked Raine into one form depending on its position
2. Wolf form Raine is the 'magical' state of Raine, and the shackle WAS a magic suppression device
   
3. (corollary to 1)Neither form is inherently magical, but the transformation is (and the shackle was keyed each way in addition to being magical suppression)
4. (corollary to 2)Raine naturally has a ton of magical energy, and has to specifically and deliberately control it to prevent magical leak-off affecting her form

4 being true would make near the wellspring an almost impossible place for her to maintain human form, likely even with training she doesn't have at the moment, but 3 would make the well irrelevant

This does still leave the whole 'attunement to a specific person' thing open, though, like Warrl said. I rather lean toward the theory proposed by Warrl after looking at that page again

[GaySailors]

I think the issue is, at least for me, looking at the shackles as, well, shackles. All we know is that it worked on Raine, and stopped when it broke. Raine fixed it, but it didn't suppress her magic,as she hadn't put it on yet. We've also seen it doesn't have to be on her for it to work in the past. Now, they put the shackle on Zen, and it works on him, not Raine.
Raine clearly has powerful magic in her, and I think she could destroy the rune if she knew how to use it well enough, but how it works is still a bit iffy.

It isn't permanently bound to her or anything, but I think just putting it on someone else wouldn't change ownership. It seems it would have to break first, and than it sticks with its new owner until broken again. If theres a way to manually switch ownership, its lost on me. I don't know if opening it and putting it on someone else would make them the owner, or if it has to break first.

So basically, it suppresses a persons magic once used on someone, and stays that way until someone opens it,or it breaks. We also know that if its broken and fixed, it doesn't suppress it's previous owner, only whoever has it put on next. But like I said, opening it and putting it on someone else so the ownership changes may or may not be possible.

[Shar]

Hmm, I'd kinda forgotten about that page... It does sorta clash with how we know the shackles work today. Though I guess her transformations there could have been coincidental...

I am not so sure... If i recall correctly (havent checked it out) she said it supressed her magic and helped her to stay in one form (and she didnt enchanted the shackles, so they were made to let her stay human - she said that her keidran form was her normal form). After they were damaged she talked with Red and said she can repair them (to be human again) or change the enchantment to supress all magic that Zen might use.

So in my eyes: she changed the magic on them so they can function another way. Its not the same as the beginning where we first saw what happend.

I'm not sure she has a "Normal" form... That's the thing we just don't know. She never had to deal with this before but the fact that changing back seems beyond her doing seems to suggest that her "true" form is this. But the flip of that is that the Shackle suppresses magic. So that seems to indicate that what we are seeing now is magically induced meaning that her true form is human.... That could be justified if we believe that it really suppresses it as opposed to canceling it out. It could mean that what we are seeing right now is just the built up transformation magic of all her years suddenly forcing its way out which is why nothing she seems able to do stops it even though she should theoretically be able to.