Comic for March 18th, 2017

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Kyrit
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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#46 Post by Kyrit »

I think one thing that a lot of people are forgetting is that even if Keith and Natani did announce that they're together officially, it would still be against Basitin law for the two to stay together at night. All females Basitin females live in one district, while the males live outside the city. Even the tavern they were staying at was at the docks, meaning they didn't go to the female district. If anything, Lynn's been lenient on them so far, as while the kiss at the docks did elicit a reaction out of him, he didn't chastise Keith about the two of them having PDA at the docks. In fact, he stood firmly with Keith as Keith declared Natani a member of the Basitin Empire's envoy. Pretty sure Keith declaring that alone was enough of a declaration that the two of them were an item for the other two Basitins.

And for anyone wondering about Keith's mom and dad, it's shown in the flashback that Alabaster went to the female district to find Cathleen. Doesn't exactly explain how Cornelius knew to go check on her or anything like that, but the flashback does show that distinction. So yeah. Pretty sure mate or not, Keith and Natani wouldn't be allowed to share a room by Basitin law.

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#47 Post by CrRAR »

xellos wrote:
Cyon wrote: It's a waiting game that both of them seem willing to play, even though they want otherwise.
I'm not really sure if they actually ARE still willing to play the waiting game. They might not be ready to publicly say "i love him" about one another, but they've been slowly moving towards a defined relationship. It's just that they've mostly talked about and done things in private so far, and I don't think they've really figured out what they are to one another. I'd guess they'll take another step or two in the right direction once they're alone, assuming Lynn and Maddie don't get in the way
Very well put. My brainstorming almost led me about to type up something very similar. You did it for me. :mrgreen:

I do wonder now though...short of either of them making any concessions (which they shouldn't because everyone should be comfortable in their own "skin"). In what company better than Flora and Trace would it be perfect to just accept each other for who they are? Flora and Trace broke a huge convention deciding to hitch up, but, difference is, they just don't care what anybody thinks. They're just happy. Maybe that's where Keith and Natani need to arrive at, sure they need to talk, but all secrets have been spilled at this point and really, salvation may arise simply from Keith and Natani dispensing with the stereotype of exactly what they think a relationship is....and jump in.

I could see them sitting down at this point and saying, "You know, I still don't know what this is, but I like you enough to commit to not ever wanting to end it. We make a great team and our friends will only support us and be able to help us to grow."
Cyon wrote:I wouldn't say that it would make him seem creepy: they both know that they have some sort of feelings for one another inside.
Only as much of a creep as it would be weird for a boyfriend in a relationship on a weird foot to suddenly profess immense love publicly without a mutually agreed feeling about said relationship. The relationship could have worked if Mr Spontaneous had proceeded step-by-step, but nooooo. XD

It's kinda on the spectrum of some crazy person on a first date discussing marriage when what's more important at that stage is establishing the underlying connection a relationship is built upon and taking each other's wishes into consideration, not making hasty decisions for both involved.

If all of a sudden Keith blurted out "Natani and I are in love and I don't care who knows it!" Natani would probably want to hide under the nearest rock. He'd probably recover...it's just the terms their relationship is on from an outside perspective right now that would make it a little weird.
Kyrit wrote:I think one thing that a lot of people are forgetting is that even if Keith and Natani did announce that they're together officially, it would still be against Basitin law for the two to stay together at night. All females Basitin females live in one district, while the males live outside the city. Even the tavern they were staying at was at the docks, meaning they didn't go to the female district. If anything, Lynn's been lenient on them so far, as while the kiss at the docks did elicit a reaction out of him, he didn't chastise Keith about the two of them having PDA at the docks. In fact, he stood firmly with Keith as Keith declared Natani a member of the Basitin Empire's envoy. Pretty sure Keith declaring that alone was enough of a declaration that the two of them were an item for the other two Basitins.

And for anyone wondering about Keith's mom and dad, it's shown in the flashback that Alabaster went to the female district to find Cathleen. Doesn't exactly explain how Cornelius knew to go check on her or anything like that, but the flashback does show that distinction. So yeah. Pretty sure mate or not, Keith and Natani wouldn't be allowed to share a room by Basitin law.
Yeah, these were exactly my feelings about exactly what regulations Lynn is upholding. Other than mating time the Basitin sexes live separately. Non-basitins even have their own darn district. Which I take has even more aggressive sanctions. (I mentioned this stuff on a earlier page of this thread)

On that topic, it may have just been Laura's style (it sure wasn't in what we saw of her youth) but if you remember she wore quite an elaborate outfit back then while many Basitins seemed to only wear t-shirts and slacks. I wonder if this almost dignitary garb was required of non-Basitin folks for the sake of higher decency. It is interesting then too because if Keidran are not accepted as viable mates by Basitin society I don't really see where an interspecies relationship on the Basitian Isles is even preferable or allowed for that matter in any way. Maybe Keidran-Keidran relationships were allowed? I don't see though how they would allow more promiscuity in a non-native population than their own people. That just begs a people to overthrow their government. Laura's many years there must have been the loneliest type of torture (though self-imposed for deserting Keith). Just interesting to think about.
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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#48 Post by Schrodinger »

IHeartMaeve wrote:Wow. Seems Keith has been friends with Alaric long enough that he's managed to acquire a certain degree of skill in finding easily-exploitable loopholes in Basitin laws. I mean, it's just crazy how he heard Roselyn use the word "adjoining" once and instantly recognize that one room split by a wall and a door is "technically two rooms," thus being exempt from the gender-separation laws.

Only question is, when did that happen? Those two didn't really have enough (best term I can find here) "screen time" in the present day to allow Alaric to teach Keith how to perform a high-speed loophole search, and I get the feeling that he gained that skill after Keith's banishment, considering the fact that he primarily developed and used that talent as part of his quest for vengeance against General Alabaster and his manipulation of the law and hasty selection of punishment for what was actually nothing but a simple act of self-defense. So how could Keith have been so skillful with finding that loophole when it's obviously so unlikely that he learned from his best friend (who was the absolute best at exploitive counter-manipulation) when Nick clearly died without being able to help Keith develop the same talent he had?
Note that Keith didn't perform a high-speed loophole search at first. It took a few attempts for Keith to get Lynn, the actual rules lawyer who he's had extended contact with since the island, to back down. Alaric, clever boy that he was, would have hit on the adjoining room fact right from the start and ended the dispute there. Keith isn't on Alaric or Lynn's level, but he's learning.
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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#49 Post by Dadrobit »

I gotta say, I'm a little surprised at the number of folks wanting Keith and Natani to just out themselves. Perhaps y'all need to take a step back and look at this from a different perspective.

I get it, it's been actual years for us since we first saw that kiss, http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/809/ but in comic time, it's been barely the blink of an eye.

As far as Natani is concerned, he's only had a few conscious hours to really process their relationship. There was the kiss, Wonderland happened, a burning boat exploded, there was another kiss, a carriage ride, and then here we are. For Natani, it was only hours ago that he asked Keith to not put a label on their relationship. http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/809/

And it was only the previous day that Keith was willing, and indeed desperately bent on dying for a false image of Laura, his last love. http://twokinds.keenspot.com/comic/758/

Natani really needs another heart to heart talk or two with Keith before there's any open proclamations made. Gender identity issues aside, this just is not a good healthy time in their relationship for such open decrees. Much less so considering the interspecies taboo kerfuffles.

Granted, I think it's pretty well known that Keith is into keidran tail after Laura, but still, it's a social thing. :mrgrin:
Schrodinger wrote:
IHeartMaeve wrote:Wow. Seems Keith has been friends with Alaric long enough that he's managed to acquire a certain degree of skill in finding easily-exploitable loopholes in Basitin laws. I mean, it's just crazy how he heard Roselyn use the word "adjoining" once and instantly recognize that one room split by a wall and a door is "technically two rooms," thus being exempt from the gender-separation laws.

Only question is, when did that happen? Those two didn't really have enough (best term I can find here) "screen time" in the present day to allow Alaric to teach Keith how to perform a high-speed loophole search, and I get the feeling that he gained that skill after Keith's banishment, considering the fact that he primarily developed and used that talent as part of his quest for vengeance against General Alabaster and his manipulation of the law and hasty selection of punishment for what was actually nothing but a simple act of self-defense. So how could Keith have been so skillful with finding that loophole when it's obviously so unlikely that he learned from his best friend (who was the absolute best at exploitive counter-manipulation) when Nick clearly died without being able to help Keith develop the same talent he had?
Note that Keith didn't perform a high-speed loophole search at first. It took a few attempts for Keith to get Lynn, the actual rules lawyer who he's had extended contact with since the island, to back down. Alaric, clever boy that he was, would have hit on the adjoining room fact right from the start and ended the dispute there. Keith isn't on Alaric or Lynn's level, but he's learning.
Also, I think perhaps that at this point Lynn might just be conceding that the further up the ranks you go, the more disregard for the law there is. Cornelius married and had a child with the enemy, Alabaster killed his own troops and murdered Innocents in the tavern, Adelaide is very laissez faire about the whole ordeal, and 95% of Alaric's schtick was getting around the law. There's just no reasoning with officers. :mrgrin:
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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#50 Post by ZeroJinKui »

MoonSticks wrote:Interesting... Lynn is such a stick in the mud, must be a Virgin :?
well, that's immensely insulting to people who aren't interested in sex, way to go.

lynn just plays too much by the rules, essentially having no free will.

blame laws and strict cultures, not personal choices of people.

anyway, i hope keith doesn't let anything stop him and natani from having a night together... screw the rules, it's time for love!
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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#51 Post by kiabugboy »

AndreRhineDavis wrote:All this Lynn hate... you guys are being way too hard on him imo.
The way I read it, he *genuinely* "hates to be the one to bring it up", he really does care about Keith, he doesn't *want* to split Keith and Natani up, and he seems to even empathise to an extent about how it is unfair... but it's a fundamental Basitin law, and hence from Lynn's perspective, must be obeyed. He's just doing what he deeply feels is right. Whether or not it *is* right is another matter, but don't be too hard on the guy.
Glad I'm not the only one
If anything I feel a slight pity for him being stuck in that position and mandate because he will be partly responsible for anything keith does that the council deems wrong

This is like the kei hatefest all over again (which I have to admit I jumped on the bandwagon at the time)

now with that being said...
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c'mon lynn..why you gotta be such a buzzkill

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#52 Post by SirJahar »

I know I'm late, but when I first saw this my reaction was "Lynn, shut the [censored] up, nobody here, except you, cares about that law."

Now? You're on forgen soil. Your laws don't apply. And if anything, people will respect Keith more for puting his Scribe in their place.

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#53 Post by Darekun »

The part that really turns me against Lynn is he's misgendering Natani in order to make this an issue. Something about what these particular boys are likely to get up to if they have access to each other's bedrooms? That might be legit, and it's likely to be actual concern for the law. Something that falls apart if one isn't classified as a girl? Lynn just has an agenda.

I would say Lynn needs to get Mike's story on Natani, but I doubt he cares that much.

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#54 Post by xellos »

It's not actually misgendering Natani, it's just that Basitin law looks at sex rather than gender. This came up a while ago, when Keith and Natani were going to the bathhouse. I'm pretty sure Lyn doesn't care about how Nat identifies, only what his body physically looks like. Which is a whole other issue, of course, because it goes back into Keith's complaint about the law having become an unchanging thing and more like religious doctrine than a legal system. There's no room to ask what the laws SHOULD state, only to know what they DO state.

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#55 Post by kiabugboy »

Darekun wrote:The part that really turns me against Lynn is he's misgendering Natani in order to make this an issue.
Where did you get that assumption
Again, what is it with people seeing this as an intentional diabolical thing Lynn did

The dude has been indoctrinated since birth In his Homeland, heck he probably lost his dick without any choice too, that's simply what he's been taught in his life, he isn't 'out to make natani's gender a problem' . the twokinds world isn't a PC world, it's filled with racism and discrimination so it only makes sense that some of the characters are flawed and imperfect, but doesn't mean they're a straight up douche

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#56 Post by Loveknowsbest »

Merchant: Get your pitchforks and torches here! Get your pitchforks and torches here! Only 2 gold coins!

Citizen: what going on?

Merchant: Well, ever since Lynn mentioned political procedure to Keith this angry mob showed up.

Citizen: Really? Who are these people?

Merchant: Keith x Natani shippers.
:D :D

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#57 Post by Warrl »

the twokinds world isn't a PC world, it's filled with racism and discrimination
And slavery and officially-sanctioned genocide...

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#58 Post by FishWeave »

I get that Lynn Wants to follow the rules, that's understandable, I doubt he's always fond of them. At the same time, He should try to remember that Keith does not see laws the same way, he has a breaking point. He loves his people, but he has also seen the damage the rules can do to lives. This puts the two at odds for different reasons. For the basitin people, sex is important and gender basically is the sex, that's it. Keith has lived off the island, he knows that things don't work that way for everyone, he also knows it doesn't for Natani. While I could see that Lynn feels the laws are vital, that setting an example is a must, Keith sees that as things that can't just be obeyed without question., He has seen what that can do, that it's a very dangerous mindset to have. I have a feeling this wont be the last time we see those two clash.

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#59 Post by aitaituo »

Darekun wrote:The part that really turns me against Lynn is he's misgendering Natani in order to make this an issue. Something about what these particular boys are likely to get up to if they have access to each other's bedrooms? That might be legit, and it's likely to be actual concern for the law. Something that falls apart if one isn't classified as a girl? Lynn just has an agenda.

I would say Lynn needs to get Mike's story on Natani, but I doubt he cares that much.
Part of the reason they segregate by sex is to synchronize female cycles and coordinate mating times, IIRC. I don't think gender has much to do with crazy basitin sex laws. Given Keith's previous relations, I think it's safe to say Lynn knows Keith is susceptible to keidran pheromones.

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Re: Comic for March 18th, 2017

#60 Post by Darekun »

xellos wrote:It's not actually misgendering Natani, it's just that Basitin law looks at sex rather than gender.
That's… how misgendering is usually done, yeah?
kiabugboy wrote:what is it with people seeing this as an intentional diabolical thing Lynn did

The dude has been indoctrinated since birth
These two don't seem compatible. Sure he's just a product of his upbringing — heck, he's basically here as a representative of his upbringing — but it's not like that makes anything better.

Maybe I misspoke; by "against" I meant in the context of the argument. I'm actually lukewarm on Keith×Natani, even if I accept that Keith and Natani ship it and not, say, Kat×Natani. I'm not pro wounding Lynn, or kicking him out, or anything like that; he just really doesn't have a point here. If he'd tried to go meta to this argument, to instead argue that the problem is the basitins back home will see it that way, then that would've been a valid point… although then it would quickly become "what do we need to do to get Natani properly classified". (Sure, the answer could involve past-Trace's magical work… I'd be too scared of the possibilities to ask, but then I'm not in Natani's position.)

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