Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

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Raydis
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#31 Post by Raydis »

On an unrelated side note: it's nice to see that Flora and Trace resonate well enough that she can get a read on him and know when he's acting up, and more importantly, how to back him out of it
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steelabjur
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#32 Post by steelabjur »

Vintage wrote:This is great! Love Natani's worried expression :mrgreen:

Nice TDM reference, too. After all these years they both (appear) to recognize each other!

When did Natani turn into such a thief, though?
She was basically raised in poverty before she became an assassin, stealing is a way to get by and a hard habit to break, especially when one is standing around surrounded by obvious opulence.

Rose looks a bit surprised at Flora and Trace holding hands. Wonder what she's thinking about that, given that she's unaware of Trace's change and has only known Evil-Trace?

Also, red glowing around the tainted hand. Last time we saw red glowing, Evil-Trace came out to play.

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Schrodinger
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#33 Post by Schrodinger »

Raydis wrote:
SirJahar wrote:Um... when did Natani become a thief?
And yeah, Rose TOTALLY remember's Nat.
The thing is though
Spoiler!
Rose never actually saw Natani's real face. When Natani spun her around to knock her out, she was already disguised as Rose
It's entirely possible that Rose doesn't remember Natani, but did catch her thinking aloud about pocketing gold. By the same token, Natani probably remembers Rose and is making the incorrect assumption that Rose does remember him.
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RowanEx
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#34 Post by RowanEx »

Schrodinger wrote:
Raydis wrote:
SirJahar wrote:Um... when did Natani become a thief?
And yeah, Rose TOTALLY remember's Nat.
The thing is though
Spoiler!
Rose never actually saw Natani's real face. When Natani spun her around to knock her out, she was already disguised as Rose
It's entirely possible that Rose doesn't remember Natani, but did catch her thinking aloud about pocketing gold. By the same token, Natani probably remembers Rose and is making the incorrect assumption that Rose does remember him.
So, in a nutshell, both of them are alarmed by each other's presence by different reasons? And one reason can only be explored on TDM on why Nat finds the Young Rose Portrait familiar?
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Schrodinger
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#35 Post by Schrodinger »

RowanEx wrote:
Schrodinger wrote:
Raydis wrote:
SirJahar wrote:Um... when did Natani become a thief?
And yeah, Rose TOTALLY remember's Nat.
The thing is though
Spoiler!
Rose never actually saw Natani's real face. When Natani spun her around to knock her out, she was already disguised as Rose
It's entirely possible that Rose doesn't remember Natani, but did catch her thinking aloud about pocketing gold. By the same token, Natani probably remembers Rose and is making the incorrect assumption that Rose does remember him.
So, in a nutshell, both of them are alarmed by each other's presence by different reasons? And one reason can only be explored on TDM on why Nat finds the Young Rose Portrait familiar?
If's Tom's smart, this will be the last reference to the side comics for a good long time.
What was it the spider said to the fly...

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Cyon
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#36 Post by Cyon »

Schrodinger wrote:If's Tom's smart, this will be the last reference to the side comics for a good long time.
He was smart enough to fit in a second reason to Rose's distrust for Natani to allow those who haven't read TDM to not be confused by the scene, so I reckon that if he does any more (which is entirely possible) there will be alternate explanations
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Shar
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#37 Post by Shar »

I just thought of something.... Rosalyn and Natani were both young at the masquerade ball, so that being the case.....well.... why did Rosalyn age so much faster? Shes and old woman and Natani is still young.
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amenon
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#38 Post by amenon »

CrRAR wrote:...I'll find more. Also, Clovis is leader of a thief's guild. Whom Zen and Natani have worked for before in TDM. So thieving to survive is not unfamiliar to them.
Mages, not thieves. I think.


Man, it's a headache when I see a page right after it goes up, then before I'm even done processing it, come back to find a different page. The first change is for the better, I think -- Natani straight-up thinking of robbing the place was weird. It's not that it's somehow beyond the pale if you want to make a case for it, as people have, but it also doesn't really fit with anything else we've seen, and 700-something pages into somebody's story isn't really the time to be bringing up that they have a larcenous heart :P (I guess there's this, but it's still a long way from there when we've never seen Natani pinch anything. Or more probably, seeing as how it is Natani, fail comically at it.)

But I think the page as a whole reads more confused now, than in its first iteration. Natani clearly recognizes Rose, but then his last thought bubble suggests that he didn't. (Since it follows up directly on what he said first, and not on Rose seeming familiar, unless you squint.) And if the idea is, as Cyon seems to suggest, to provide an alternative explanation for the interactions, it doesn't really work; Rose only turns to look at Natani in response to Natani turning to look at her, not because of what Natani says.

So the whole thing feels muddled to me. I think adding that last thought bubble was a mistake. And while I'm being critical, I think both Flora and Trace are off-model in panel 5.

But! Some people were wondering if the snow wolves were allied with the forest wolves. This (probably) answers that.
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MuonNeutrino
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#39 Post by MuonNeutrino »

Shar wrote:I just thought of something.... Rosalyn and Natani were both young at the masquerade ball, so that being the case.....well.... why did Rosalyn age so much faster? Shes and old woman and Natani is still young.
Rose wasn't young then. She didn't look bad or anything, but she's got some telltale streaks of white in her hair. More concretely, if you look at the timeline TDM takes place roughly 13ish years after the initial flashback that introduces Rose, and she already looked near-adult then. Tom recently stated in a stream chat that Rose is 26; in that case she would have been 7 during the initial flashback and 20 during TDM. She just doesn't happen to look particularly aged in TDM is all, which is probably partially down to Tom's art style, plus perhaps hints that Rose simply has good genes and/or that older keidran just age gracefully and don't *look* particularly old at first glance.
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AndreRhineDavis
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#40 Post by AndreRhineDavis »

MuonNeutrino wrote:
Shar wrote:I just thought of something.... Rosalyn and Natani were both young at the masquerade ball, so that being the case.....well.... why did Rosalyn age so much faster? Shes and old woman and Natani is still young.
Rose wasn't young then. She didn't look bad or anything, but she's got some telltale streaks of white in her hair. More concretely, if you look at the timeline TDM takes place roughly 13ish years after the initial flashback that introduces Rose, and she already looked near-adult then. Tom recently stated in a stream chat that Rose is 26; in that case she would have been 7 during the initial flashback and 20 during TDM. She just doesn't happen to look particularly aged in TDM is all, which is probably partially down to Tom's art style, plus perhaps hints that Rose simply has good genes and/or that older keidran just age gracefully and don't *look* particularly old at first glance.
Rose can't have been 20 in TDM. Saria died 6 years before the present, but in TDM she hadn't even started courting Trace.
Ahhh, I see you have already discussed this in much detail.
BadFoMo wrote:Panel 7
Original
Natani (thinking): Man… I am going to steal so much from this place.
Natani: <…Huh. White wolves usually all look the same to me, but the one in this painting looks a little… familiar.>
Update
Natani: <Man… So much gold. I'm really tempted to pocket some of this stuff.>
Natani: …Huh. Snow wolves usually all look the same to me, but the one in this painting looks oddly… familiar.>

Panel 13
Original
Keith: <You two know each other?>
Natani: Uh, erm… <it's nothing. White wolves and brown wolves just don't get along well.>
Update
Natani (thinking): On second thought, maybe I shouldn't.
Keith: <You two know each other?>
Natani: Uh, erm… <it's nothing. Snow wolves and forest wolves just don't get along, is all.>
Wow, it was originally like that? Yeah, that's way out of place. Like, what could Natani realistically steal? What could he carry away with him without anyone else noticing? (Especially with him losing his clothes all the time!). Clearly not any big objects. Maybe like some jewels or rings or something? And then what... it's not like he can sell them to anyone, he's in the middle of human territory in the middle of a human-wolf war! Moreover, as some of you have mentioned, Natani holds little allegiance to the wolves anymore, he has no way to do this "spy on Trace" mission and neither he nor Zen can afford to go back home having failed another mission; the only meaning/family/home Natani has left is Zen and Keith. He has nothing to gain by antagonising group A where he gets to stay with Keith.

The way the text is changed, it makes a lot lot more sense to me. It's not like a literal plan of "I'm gonna actually steal a bunch of this stuff", it's the natural reaction of someone who's grown up poor and starving suddenly being in this mansion where every little item is worth a fortune, you're naturally gonna think "wow, I'm so tempted to take some of this stuff" just as a first reaction, not as a serious plan.

(Also, interestingly, the transcript at the bottom says "strangely familiar" instead of "oddly familiar")
MuonNeutrino wrote:
Raydis wrote:
SirJahar wrote:Um... when did Natani become a thief?
And yeah, Rose TOTALLY remember's Nat.
The thing is though
Spoiler!
Rose never actually saw Natani's real face. When Natani spun her around to knock her out, she was already disguised as Rose
Spoiler!
Actually I don't think so. In that first panel on page 12 you can see the magic swirls around Natani, indicating that he is *just then* in the process of casting the illusion spell - and Rose is already turned around to face him, so she should have seen his face. Rose may also be able to identify him by scent, though he may have had the (usual) scent disguise spell active at that point.
Spoiler!
I really wish Rose did recognise Natani, that would be an amazing interaction, but I just can't see it happening. I don't think she sees him at all in TDM, and even if she did see him or smell his scent, it would only be for a second or something before she was knocked out. Even if Saria spoke to her afterwards and told her about Natani and Zen, I can't see how she could possible identify that Natani here is the same thief that knocked her out at TDM. On the other hand, I'm not at all surprised that Natani recognised Rose. I also wouldn't be surprised if he recognises the picture of Saria. So yeah... I guess Rose's reaction must simply be a "don't steal anything" reaction and nothing more...

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LordWeirdo
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#41 Post by LordWeirdo »

While I knew the Natani/Rose tension was likely related to TDM, though I've never read it (yet), I am concerned that TK will rely progressively more on TDM canon. But hopefully that's just my cynicism kicking in.
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Re: Comic for Saturday, March 4th, 2017

#42 Post by BadJoke »

MuonNeutrino wrote: She just doesn't happen to look particularly aged in TDM is all, which is probably partially down to Tom's art style, plus perhaps hints that Rose simply has good genes and/or that older keidran just age gracefully and don't *look* particularly old at first glance.
Fur hide the wrinkles. :grin:
Vintage wrote:When did Natani turn into such a thief, though?
Personally I think that, when you make a life of murdering (innocent or not) people for money and are part of a guild dedicated to that life style, I doubt you'd have any restraints about stealing a few shiny things.
Criminals are less dangerous than virtuous people: they kill less.

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