Comic Page for January 5th, 2017

[AmigaDragon]

Finally boys, a mystery no more: Reed is a woman!

While not stated in-comic before this page, with page 955 Tom tweeted her first name as Alice. Until I saw that, I also thought she was a guy.

And is Reni really doing anything worth being embarrassed by? It's not like it's a religious or royal fountain, is it?

[Raydis]

For some reason, whenever I see that estate, the Desolate Hope's Lun Infinus starts playing in my head

[amenon]

Group B to the rescue??? *wink wink nudge nudge* I need this in my life

If their best hope is Group B, then they're doubly [censored]

I think the best bet would be another Euchre/Sirus bailout, but who knows; maybe this is the point where they finally start figuring this heroing business out.

We know that this flashback took place a few months before Raine was conceived.

I'm not sure we do know that. The minimum is fall to winter, but it feels much more likely to me -- looking at Mary's and Euchre's interactions -- that there's at least a year between Rose there and Rose at the gallows.

Rose is already at least the equivalent of a late-teens human in that flashback, which, as best as I can parse keidran aging patterns based on what evidence we have, makes her probably 7 or older.

Possibly a bit younger than that. I don't think Natani can be older than 6 in TDM, and his accouterments are at least mostly in, while young Natani -- who would be half a year younger, so to speak -- was clearly more in the 'entering puberty' phase. (One year for Trace's and Saria's courtship, two years for Trace's seclusion, four years for Trace's reign = 7; Character bio puts Natani's age at ~13; ~13-7 = ~6)

So six seems reasonable for physical maturity.

And yeah, I agree that Rose is probably dead by now -- but I would have said, and have said, the same about Clovis, yet here we are. Is Rose older? Certainly. But it makes it feel more possible that we might see her.

And of course, Euchre could have indeed helped her out, if that's a thing that can be done; and it could also be how that long-dangling plot thread finally gets properly introduced to the characters, some of whom have a very vested interest in seeing keidran live longer. Chekov's longevity.

[Cyon]

Unfortunately, unless Euchre chose to share whatever life-extending mojo he's got going on with his cousin (and assuming she didn't attack him on sight!), Rose has almost certainly passed away from old age by now.

We know that this flashback took place a few months before Raine was conceived. Raine is now 18, which makes that flashback occur about 19 years before the present comic time. Rose is already at least the equivalent of a late-teens human in that flashback, which, as best as I can parse keidran aging patterns based on what evidence we have, makes her probably 7 or older. In which case, at the current comic time she'd be at least 26, and Tom has stated that most keidran die of old age around 20 and that a keidran making it to 25 is like a human making it past 100. Even if I'm off by a year or two, she'd still be very, very old to still be alive.

It's not *impossible*, mind you, if Tom decides he wants to have it happen, but it seems quite unlikely based on what we know of the timeline and keidran aging.

I don't think that Tom would just announce the passing on of a character so long after they were last seen. If she disappears, there will be a cool backstory of some sort, or she will make one final dramatic appearance followed by a revelation of some kind (she hasn't been referenced much in the story, so I liken her to Laura in that sense)

[Hayate]

And is Reni really doing anything worth being embarrassed by? It's not like it's a religious or royal fountain, is it?

Well, to start, she is supposed to be a princess. A princess shouldn't be drinking from a fountain! It's also worth mentioning that this is the Grand Templar's fountain. On top of all that, there are witnesses! I think it all compiles into quite an embarrassing moment. I mean, what would you think if you saw even some random person drinking from a fountain like that?

[aitaituo]

Group B to the rescue??? *wink wink nudge nudge* I need this in my life

If their best hope is Group B, then they're doubly [censored]

[MuonNeutrino]

We know that this flashback took place a few months before Raine was conceived.

I'm not sure we do know that. The minimum is fall to winter, but it feels much more likely to me -- looking at Mary's and Euchre's interactions -- that there's at least a year between Rose there and Rose at the gallows.

Not sure. The first part of the flashback is fall, the second part is winter sometime. Either there's a year and a few months, or there's just a few months. Given that neither of them looks any different I was going with the 'just a few months' scenario. Although, if there *is* a full year, it makes Rose a year older since it pushes the first part of the flashback a year further into the past.

Rose is already at least the equivalent of a late-teens human in that flashback, which, as best as I can parse keidran aging patterns based on what evidence we have, makes her probably 7 or older.

Possibly a bit younger than that. I don't think Natani can be older than 6 in TDM, and his accouterments are at least mostly in, while young Natani -- who would be half a year younger, so to speak -- was clearly more in the 'entering puberty' phase. (One year for Trace's and Saria's courtship, two years for Trace's seclusion, four years for Trace's reign = 7; Character bio puts Natani's age at ~13; ~13-7 = ~6)

So six seems reasonable for physical maturity.

The difference is that I date TDM one year later than you - the problem is that there's conflicting information in the comic on when Saria's death was. You're using the timeline Nora narrates in her flashback - 4 years for trace's reign and two years in hiding, for 6 years - which puts Saria's death in springtime 476 (it's 482 in comic). However, in two different places the year 477 is given for her death - on the tombstone, and in Trace's journal.

Personally, I go with the explicitly given set of dates, mostly because they're delivered as unambiguous in-world information rather than filtered through another character - while nora certainly isn't a poster child for 'unreliable narrator' she still *could* be wrong (or, rather, simply not being very precise?), while saying the dates are wrong requires a flat retcon. And so, in my interpretation, TDM takes place in summer-ish 476, rather than summer-ish 475.

I also think this fits a bit better with Natani and Zen's timeline as well. Tom was once on record of saying that the attack on Nat and Zen's tribe took place 9 years ago, but that was when Tom was still saying Natani was 14, so with the change in age the attack should have happened 8 years ago instead (to keep them the same age in the various flashbacks), or, in 474 (and likely summertime-ish given green foliage in flashback). If TDM happens in 476 it allows a year and a half for Nat and Zen to join the brotherhood and for Natani to get her/his soul shattered (since that happened 6 months before TDM). But if it happens in 475 instead it only gives 6 months for Nat and Zen to wander lost and hungry for long enough for Zen to commit to joining the brotherhood as a way out, for Natani to join with him, for both of them to go through whatever training the brotherhood wants to give them, and for them to go on that fateful first mission, which seems a short timescale.

And so in my interpretation, Natani is 7 in TDM rather than 6, hence my putting 7 as the equivalent of late teens rather than 6. In my fanon age equivalency chart, 6-7 is the period where the (relatively quick) puberty process takes place. But you could interpret it both ways, for sure.

And yeah, I agree that Rose is probably dead by now -- but I would have said, and have said, the same about Clovis, yet here we are. Is Rose older? Certainly. But it makes it feel more possible that we might see her.

And of course, Euchre could have indeed helped her out, if that's a thing that can be done; and it could also be how that long-dangling plot thread finally gets properly introduced to the characters, some of whom have a very vested interest in seeing keidran live longer. Chekov's longevity.

Well, Clovis doesn't have to be anywhere near as old as Rose. All we know for sure is that he's an adult during TDM, 6-ish years before present time. So if he was only 9 or 10 then, he'd only have to be 15-16 now - older than most of the main keidran cast, but not necessarily dead of old age. Rose has to be a *lot* older - almost whatever exact set of assumptions you make, she still has to be significantly over 20.

But yes, there *is* the possibility of Euchre doing something fishy, and if there's anyone he'd share it with, it'd be Rose (given his obvious guilty feelings over what happened due to him) or Flora (given his obvious affection towards her), so you never know.

[SpottedKitty]

And yeah, I agree that Rose is probably dead by now -- but I would have said, and have said, the same about Clovis, yet here we are.

Now there's something I hadn't realised we needed to think about before. I've seen the preview pages of TDM, so I know Clovis is involved in that. How old was he then? It's been what, six or seven years? That makes it plausible that Clovis could just be moderately elderly by now. Not quite sure, though, and we didn't really get a good look at him in the Epilogue — more pages info required.

[amenon]

Not sure. The first part of the flashback is fall, the second part is winter sometime. Either there's a year and a few months, or there's just a few months. Given that neither of them looks any different I was going with the 'just a few months' scenario. Although, if there *is* a full year, it makes Rose a year older since it pushes the first part of the flashback a year further into the past.

A few months just feels like a very short timescale for settling in and making friends and enemies and getting someone pregnant. But maybe he works fast

Personally, I go with the explicitly given set of dates, mostly because they're delivered as unambiguous in-world information rather than filtered through another character - while nora certainly isn't a poster child for 'unreliable narrator' she still *could* be wrong (or, rather, simply not being very precise?), while saying the dates are wrong requires a flat retcon. And so, in my interpretation, TDM takes place in summer-ish 476, rather than summer-ish 475.

I'll buy this argument. I didn't think to think of the explicit dates. Adjusting to seven.

I also think this fits a bit better with Natani and Zen's timeline as well.

This, though, I think is immaterial, because there's no anchor points in the comic.

Well, Clovis doesn't have to be anywhere near as old as Rose. All we know for sure is that he's an adult during TDM, 6-ish years before present time. So if he was only 9 or 10 then, he'd only have to be 15-16 now - older than most of the main keidran cast, but not necessarily dead of old age. Rose has to be a *lot* older - almost whatever exact set of assumptions you make, she still has to be significantly over 20.

Now there's something I hadn't realised we needed to think about before. I've seen the preview pages of TDM, so I know Clovis is involved in that. How old was he then? It's been what, six or seven years? That makes it plausible that Clovis could just be moderately elderly by now. Not quite sure, though, and we didn't really get a good look at him in the Epilogue — more pages info required.

I fell into the trap of assuming someone in a position of power would not be in their equivalent of late teens. A pretty bad assumption when it comes to Twokinds (Trace, Alaric, sort-of Keith)

[AmigaDragon]

And is Reni really doing anything worth being embarrassed by? It's not like it's a religious or royal fountain, is it?

Well, to start, she is supposed to be a princess. A princess shouldn't be drinking from a fountain! It's also worth mentioning that this is the Grand Templar's fountain. On top of all that, there are witnesses! I think it all compiles into quite an embarrassing moment. I mean, what would you think if you saw even some random person drinking from a fountain like that?

"Not really nobility." Considering old-Trace's "guests of... unusual size", there may be a standing policy (at least on that deck) of "make yourself at home". Come on, do you really deny a dragon something as simple as a drink?

Noticing the long caravan in panel 1, they must be hauling all of Eric's rescued cargo to the estate, partially explaining why it's already dark (takes time to find and load wagons).
(I always find it amusing how fast TV shows switch between full dark and full daylight (either way) especially at crime scenes.)

[Cyon]

Noticing the long caravan in panel 1, they must be hauling all of Eric's rescued cargo to the estate, partially explaining why it's already dark (takes time to find and load wagons).
(I always find it amusing how fast TV shows switch between full dark and full daylight (either way) especially at crime scenes.)

If you remember the official map of the Twokinds universe (don't have the link), the port is actually some distance from the centre of Edinmire, so we can expect it taking a few hours to reach it.

[SirJahar]

That icon is for an abandoned port. It's safe to assume they are a tad up stream.
New Orleans up stream.

[Kyrit]

That icon is for an abandoned port. It's safe to assume they are a tad up stream.
New Orleans up stream.

Where are you getting that Derelict Port is abandoned? The map doesn't show it to be such. There's also no stream drawn on the map near Edinmire.

Here's the map for any seeking the link; http://orig08.deviantart.net/6a1b/f/201 ... 4wjhd0.jpg

[MuonNeutrino]

Not sure. The first part of the flashback is fall, the second part is winter sometime. Either there's a year and a few months, or there's just a few months. Given that neither of them looks any different I was going with the 'just a few months' scenario. Although, if there *is* a full year, it makes Rose a year older since it pushes the first part of the flashback a year further into the past.

A few months just feels like a very short timescale for settling in and making friends and enemies and getting someone pregnant. But maybe he works fast

It's entirely possible that there's an extra year in there, for sure. But to me, while the 'few months' scenario does feel a bit fast, the 'year and a few months' one just feels too long. It's pretty much just a subjective impression either way, though, so you could definitely go with either scenario. Well, apart from the fact that the extra year scenario also makes Rose a further year older during TDM, and under the assumption that she's 7 in the flashback, she already would have been 20 during TDM even without the extra year in there. But maybe she just has good genes. Or Euchre is doing something.

... Actually, that might be one reason to wonder if Euchre might actually *be* doing something. She's quite old in TDM, regardless of exactly which assumptions you make, but while she definitely looks older, she doesn't seem *elderly*. In fact, she looks awfully spry for a keidran whose age falls on the high end of the range where Tom said they typically die of old age. Is that evidence that Euchre is meddling in some way?

I fell into the trap of assuming someone in a position of power would not be in their equivalent of late teens. A pretty bad assumption when it comes to Twokinds (Trace, Alaric, sort-of Keith)

Well, that and Clovis could still have been 10 or even 11, which is young but not quite 'late teens' either.

[amenon]

... Actually, that might be one reason to wonder if Euchre might actually *be* doing something. She's quite old in TDM, regardless of exactly which assumptions you make, but while she definitely looks older, she doesn't seem *elderly*. In fact, she looks awfully spry for a keidran whose age falls on the high end of the range where Tom said they typically die of old age. Is that evidence that Euchre is meddling in some way?

Keidran could also just preserve well generally. It's a short enough lifespan without the tail-end of it being taken with infirmity.

Besides; if she went white, how would you tell?

Well, that and Clovis could still have been 10 or even 11, which is young but not quite 'late teens' either.

We have Kat at 10, and Flora at 11. Both still seem rather teenage-y to me.

Still, you have the point. If 7 is just-about-physically-mature, 10 is well into adulthood by lifespan. Mental development is a separate question.