The Keidran Language Thread

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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#31 Post by Technic[Bot] » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:24 am

Qwe304 wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:17 pm
Neptune wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:50 pm
Qwe304 wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:16 pm
there is a good bit of (translated) keidran in the note flora wrote to keith in the bonus pages of book 1
Anyone got the text or sauce for that?
here: https://imgur.com/a/Yz28O
Not an expert on the topic but that seems heavily runic.
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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#32 Post by yahnne » Sun May 20, 2018 2:28 pm

Neptune wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:32 pm
iliar wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 4:59 pm
Little fan fact about Keidran Language.
[21:05:34] <Tom> The Keidran language works the same way.
[21:05:50] <Tom> Or similar. All pronouns are gendered.
[21:06:29] <Tom> So there is a male and female "I" and "my"
A lot of languages have gendered 3rd person pronouns. Virtually all of the Indo-European languages, for example. Slovenian and some other languages have a 2nd person singular used in feminine contexts.

French has participles, which virtually mark pronouns. For example, "J'ai créé" means the speaker is male, while "J'ai créée" means the speaker is female.

Thai has truly gendered first person pronouns.
Hi. Just wanted to correct you on your example in French. Past participles are invariable when used with the auxiliary "avoir" (to have), except if they have a direct object before (ex: Marina a créé une machine / La machine que Marina a créée. > Marina created a machine. / The machine Marina created.) In this case, they just agree with the direct object complement and don't give any information about the speaker.
With the auxiliary verb "être" (to be), on the other hand, the subject agrees with the past participle and you know its grammatical gender. (ex: Je suis allée au supermarché > I went to the supermarket.)

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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#33 Post by Warrl » Sun May 20, 2018 5:39 pm

Dang it, the only English-language fiction I can think of that deals with languages that use a different gendering scheme (which would include "no gender at all") is The Flying Cloud, where it's a very minor thing - one of the minor characters is Finnish (genderless), and that character simply doesn't use English pronouns to avoid having to figure out all the gender stuff.

There are MUCH different gendering schemes. There are LOTS of languages that use two or more genders but not to distinguish between male and female. Some have the animate and inanimate genders; some have sapient and non-sapient genders.

English pronouns, by the way, come in five genders: masculine, feminine, neutral-person, unperson, and neutral. It's acceptable to use any of the personal pronouns for non-persons, but using unperson for a person is insulting. Many people (including language teachers) think they come in only two, and that may be part of the reason that people learning English as a second language find our pronouns so confusing. (Another factor is that the pronoun words are not always pronouns - "those" is an unperson pronoun but in the usage "those people" it isn't a pronoun at all.)

Fortunately, aside from pronouns, English is very close to genderless. (Not quite: It's now acceptable to say that Marilyn Monroe was an actor, but we still have "actress" and you better not say that John Wayne was one. On the other hand, "authoress" is effectively gone from modern English. I observe that the sex of an actor matters rather more often than the sex of an author...)

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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#34 Post by Neptune » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:37 pm

JunkerFox wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:29 pm
Etz Eru'l zit d'ongru graendaegh uut
(The reach will be ours again)
Keidran more like English relex #5,201 am I right
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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#35 Post by Warrl » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:56 pm

Neptune wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:37 pm
JunkerFox wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 4:29 pm
Etz Eru'l zit d'ongru graendaegh uut
(The reach will be ours again)
Keidran more like English relex #5,201 am I right
A language created by a native English-speaker who hasn't studied language design - rather like English is a reasonably good bet.

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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#36 Post by Neptune » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:06 pm

Absolutely predicted
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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#37 Post by Wolf of Fire » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:45 am

:natani: It would appear that SOME other lingual parts are being used, I see some Latin, Aqua [Water] (Aquamentis), Ignis [Fire] or rather Igniras), aeris [Wind] (Aerismentis) Greek(Αερισμέντις!) for "Ventilation," Based on what I have seen some is Latin based, or, is Latin based off it.? ;) lol but I could piece together a whole ENTIRE language from this I just need to know what certain things are and how it's meant to be.

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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#38 Post by Neptune » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:31 pm

Wolf of Fire wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:45 am
:natani: It would appear that SOME other lingual parts are being used, I see some Latin, Aqua [Water] (Aquamentis), Ignis [Fire] or rather Igniras), aeris [Wind] (Aerismentis) Greek(Αερισμέντις!) for "Ventilation," Based on what I have seen some is Latin based, or, is Latin based off it.? ;) lol but I could piece together a whole ENTIRE language from this I just need to know what certain things are and how it's meant to be.
I doubt it, Keidran is an Anti-Language, with absolutely no known rules of grammar. Basitin is completely unknown.
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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#39 Post by Warrl » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:00 am

Since the basitin can't do magic, or even be around it too much, without suffering loss of mental ability, and the keidran can't do magic without magic crystals, I would guess that most technical terms of magic in both languages are derived from the human language.

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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#40 Post by aitaituo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:20 am

Warrl wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:00 am
Since the basitin can't do magic, or even be around it too much, without suffering loss of mental ability, and the keidran can't do magic without magic crystals, I would guess that most technical terms of magic in both languages are derived from the human language.
We've never seen mention of a keidran equivalent of a mages guild or Templar, either.
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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#41 Post by SpottedKitty » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:40 pm

aitaituo wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:20 am
We've never seen mention of a keidran equivalent of a mages guild or Templar, either.
What about the wolves' Assassin's Guild? Depending, of course, on how common it is to have members with magical abilities on Natani's level. If they're rare, naming them "the Magi Brothers" would be a mark of that rarity. If not, maybe Zen had a monumental failure of imagination (or possibly more than his fair share of Natani's last hangover). :wink:
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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#42 Post by aitaituo » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:04 pm

SpottedKitty wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:40 pm
aitaituo wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:20 am
We've never seen mention of a keidran equivalent of a mages guild or Templar, either.
What about the wolves' Assassin's Guild? Depending, of course, on how common it is to have members with magical abilities on Natani's level. If they're rare, naming them "the Magi Brothers" would be a mark of that rarity. If not, maybe Zen had a monumental failure of imagination (or possibly more than his fair share of Natani's last hangover). :wink:
My thought was that a mages guild proper would develop terminology to describe magic and magical processes. Even if most Assassins use magic, they wouldn't necessarily develop technical terminology for it.
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Re: The Keidran Language Thread

#43 Post by Shinigami95 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:41 am

Aitaituo does have a point there. An assassin would likely keep their tricks a secret to keep others from catching on to them. A proper mage's guild would collect and instruct others on said processes. But these facts aside, it would be difficult anyway to derive a language based on what little we've collected. That is, unless we had help from the creator.
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