Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

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Chris
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#61 Post by Chris »

Stormlight wrote:I get the feeling that Tom doesn't really like them, given how (relativley) quickly the Keith Flora Trace and Keith Natani Laura situations were resolved, but group b also seems to be headed in that direction.
I dunno, I think those are two different situations. Although it was hinted at in the early chapters, we don't know how much of the KeithxFloraxTrace love triangle was developed, or why exactly it was dropped. KeithxNatanixLaura never really seemed to be on the table... Laura was already old by the time she was introduced, and didn't offer much to the group (from a story-telling perspective) to have her tag along, other than to continually act as foil for Natani's interest in Keith (where Keith still had feelings for Laura, and Natani and Keith were having trouble opening up to each other).
Bellhead wrote:Look at how he hesitates when suggesting that Red and Raine should not be together, 784. He says "Maybe it'll help convince her that she'd be better off with... someone of her own kind."
Note how he doesn't say "me" or "my kind", or anything besides "her own kind".
Though there is that hesitation in his statement, which opens up the possibility that he was thinking/implying '"me" but looked for a way to say it more tactfully. "Her own kind" meant "keidran" after all, and he's the only other keidran there. And Red's response "Don't get any ideas!" certainly implies that. Further, Sythe has a bit of trouble seeing her as a human, as he later says "things were [a] lot friendlier between our kind and theirs" right to her without thinking.
Red loves Raine, and Raine loves Red.
I'm not sure Raine's feelings towards Red have ever been brought up. By the time he asked her out she was much more worried about her ongoing transformation, and since then she's been more concerned with keeping Red and Sythe's friendship. Some part of Raine even doubts if Red honestly still thinks of her as a friend (and Red's continual use of keidran slurs and anti-keidran remarks obviously bothers her). Up to now, Raine has only expressed that she sees them all as friends.

Besides, we know what Raine really wants to have happen. :redhair: :heart: :sythe:
One final repeated note: Sythe cares. He's not a selfish jerk, and he's not a jealous maniac. He wouldn't try to put himself between a couple of star-crossed lovers who are making progress working past racial barriers just because he wants a girl.
I agree with that. Sythe doesn't seem to be the type of character to purposely get in-between Red and Raine if they both make it known they like each other. But I think too much of it is still in the air... Sythe doesn't know how much Red likes Raine, Raine has not had an opportunity to show any kind of affection to either of them, and Sythe obviously has some attraction to Raine (whether it's a relationship attraction, or simply because she's kinda-sorta another keidran, is not clear).
deadman2011 wrote:As for the night with the pizza Tom's pretty well stated that he ignores some of the things that he wrote back then at least till chapter 7. So who's to say that he hasn't ignored that one?
Considering that the pizza night is the entire reason Sythe remembered them and helped them escape, I think it still holds some weight. Though I do think the dialog from that night is innocent enough to not imply anything between them. Although... Maren did go along with the pretend-Sythe-is-our-prisoner plan and lie right to the Templar's face when she didn't have to, and was okay with having Sythe keep an eye on Raine by the river.
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#62 Post by deadman2011 »

Chris wrote:
deadman2011 wrote:As for the night with the pizza Tom's pretty well stated that he ignores some of the things that he wrote back then at least till chapter 7. So who's to say that he hasn't ignored that one?
Considering that the pizza night is the entire reason Sythe remembered them and helped them escape, I think it still holds some weight. Though I do think the dialog from that night is innocent enough to not imply anything between them. Although... Maren did go along with the pretend-Sythe-is-our-prisoner plan and lie right to the Templar's face when she didn't have to, and was okay with having Sythe keep an eye on Raine by the river.
I completely agree.
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#63 Post by SpottedKitty »

Things I Just Noticed That Amuse Me Way Too Much department — centre panel, Karen's glomping of Raine is so scary it makes Red's hair stand on end. :wink:
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#64 Post by AmigaDragon »

Bellhead wrote:~Red obviously likes Raine (we all already knew that).
~Raine has feelings for Red, as seen on 686.
I'm not sure I'd go as far as "love" yet, but they definitely had some attraction for each other before the manacle damage, and Red is slowly returning toward that point (starting to accept her keidran side).
SpottedKitty wrote:Things I Just Noticed That Amuse Me Way Too Much department — centre panel, Karen's glomping of Raine is so scary it makes Red's hair stand on end. :wink:
One thing I'm seeing is an injured person getting tackled. I hope her injuries aren't seriously jostled by this "DOGGY!!" glomp. Her reaction in the next panel seems to indicate no real problem with that.
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#65 Post by Bellhead »

deadman2011 wrote:To me Maren sounded a bit jealous when Red decides to run off to check on Raine at the river (also on page 676 in the next to last panel.)
I wouldn't say "jealous", more of "You idiot! Raine's not the only person here!"
While yes Raine was a little emotional during the time of Red's proposition it seems to stem more from an "Oh no what will they think of me if they see me like this? Or will they even believe me if I tell them?" rather than a "yes I would like to go on a date with you". She seemed flattered by the offer if anything. page 680
I saw it more of an "I have strong feelings for you, but you hate what I'm becoming right now behind our back". Also note her tears just after Red sliced her. Those weren't from pain alone.
Sythe has been trying to help Red get passed those racial tendencies that he has not just for Raine's sake but for the sake of the group since he's a full time keidran whereas Raine isn't. When Sythe told Red that Raine would be better off with someone of her own kind that's left rather open to interpretation. While Red has shown that he wants a relationship with Raine, but until she says "yay" or "nay" to his offer Red hasn't claimed her yet.
True, in the literal sense, but think about it: He's made it clear that he cares about her. Until he or Raine says "no", he's laid claim in his mind. He'd be super jealous if Sythe started moving in.
The strip you used to show that Raine had feelings for Red doesn't really say or show any kind of attachment towards him outside of just friends.
True, but it does show that she has some strong emotions on the matter, meaning there's something substantial behind it.
pizza night snip
Discussed in a previous post.
I won't deny what you said though. Sythe isn't a selfish jerk and he's there to help. It just seems that during his talks with Raine she's not only been a little more cheerful but so has he and he's a bit of a pessimist so it's kind've out of character. I think he's getting Raine's attention without really trying. However, I will say that even though Red likes Raine she hasn't really shown any kind of attraction outside of just being friends.
As stated, she's shown emotion on the matter. Strong emotion. There's something there, no doubt about it. We're just not sure what yet.
Please keep in mind these are just my opinions if yours are different that's cool with me. Feel free to debate them with me even.
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Chris wrote:
Stormlight wrote:I don't think :redhair: x :sythe: x :raine: snip
I disagree snip
Personally, I think that it didn't work for Group A because the only three main characters would be in a love triangle, and that just wouldn't work very well.
Chris wrote:
Bellhead wrote:Look at how he hesitates when suggesting that Red and Raine should not be together, 784. He says "Maybe it'll help convince her that she'd be better off with... someone of her own kind."
Note how he doesn't say "me" or "my kind", or anything besides "her own kind".
Though there is that hesitation in his statement, which opens up the possibility that he was thinking/implying '"me" but looked for a way to say it more tactfully. "Her own kind" meant "keidran" after all, and he's the only other keidran there. And Red's response "Don't get any ideas!" certainly implies that. Further, Sythe has a bit of trouble seeing her as a human, as he later says "things were [a] lot friendlier between our kind and theirs" right to her without thinking.
I've had similar blunders as well, in different situations. It's more of "our kind" as in "my kind", speaking as he would have at the point in time in question, rather than as he would when he was talking to her. For instance, I've refered to my family as "us", even when none of them are present.
Chris wrote:
Red loves Raine, and Raine loves Red.
Do we know about that? snip
she's more worried about other things snip
She just wants friends snip
(sorry for snippage, saving space.) While she has not said so, she has expressed her feelings, see earlier in post.
Chris wrote:Raine's Fantasy snip
lol good point there.
Chris wrote:
One final repeated note: Sythe cares. He's not a selfish jerk, and he's not a jealous maniac. He wouldn't try to put himself between a couple of star-crossed lovers who are making progress working past racial barriers just because he wants a girl.
I agree with that. Sythe doesn't seem to be the type of character to purposely get in-between Red and Raine if they both make it known they like each other. But I think too much of it is still in the air... Sythe doesn't know how much Red likes Raine, Raine has not had an opportunity to show any kind of affection to either of them, and Sythe obviously has some attraction to Raine (whether it's a relationship attraction, or simply because she's kinda-sorta another keidran, is not clear).
Sythe knows how much Red likes her. Red's made it clear, if only to him. Now about Sythe being attracted to Raine.. he might be. But as I stated, he won't act on it until Raine and Red are far out of the quesion.
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#66 Post by Chris »

Bellhead wrote:
Chris wrote:
Stormlight wrote:I don't think :redhair: x :sythe: x :raine: snip
I disagree snip
Personally, I think that it didn't work for Group A because the only three main characters would be in a love triangle, and that just wouldn't work very well.
To be clear, I wasn't saying one way or another whether I think such a love triangle would develop. I was just talking on Tom's willingness to do it given the previous scenarios in the comic. It's possible it could happen (there actually seems to be a couple discarded ideas from earlier in the comic that has shown up with Group B, like the love interest wanting to be human for the sake of others), but it's also possible it won't.
I've had similar blunders as well, in different situations. It's more of "our kind" as in "my kind", speaking as he would have at the point in time in question, rather than as he would when he was talking to her. For instance, I've refered to my family as "us", even when none of them are present.
I think that's different. A family is a collective group, and you've (presumably) been raised with them in such an environment, so you'd continue to think of them as a group even if they're no longer physically present. In contrast Sythe met Raine as a human and started to get to know her as a human. First impressions are quite strong, so for him to so suddenly switch to thinking of her as a keidran by default, her new form must've had a pretty strong impression on him. Surely, it's possible it's just because he doesn't want to be the only keidran among a group of not-very-grateful humans, but it could also be because, as a keidran himself, he finds her more attractive as a keidran. Or maybe a bit of both.
(sorry for snippage, saving space.) While she has not said so, she has expressed her feelings, see earlier in post.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I think she was too busy freaking out about her transformation by the time Red asked her out, so she was thinking like "of all the times for someone to ask me out, it has to be when I'm turning into a keidran". Her thoughts immediately went to thinking about "them" and what they'll think of her being a keidran, rather than Red specifically.
Sythe knows how much Red likes her. Red's made it clear, if only to him. Now about Sythe being attracted to Raine.. he might be. But as I stated, he won't act on it until Raine and Red are far out of the quesion.
Red's implied to Sythe that he likes Raine, but Sythe has done the same. As far as the comic's shown, Sythe doesn't know Red went so far as to ask her out, let alone what Raine's response would be.
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#67 Post by Warrl »

Given Red's frequently-expressed antipathy toward keidran, Raine wouldn't want him to see her as keidran whether she's attracted to him or not.

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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#68 Post by Xerkus »

So Raine is one of those Bowman's wolves?

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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#69 Post by BadFoMo »

Xerkus wrote:So Raine is one of those Bowman's wolves?
If she is then that means that Karen (or at least this one) is actually a robot! And if that wasn't bad enough, did you see the way she pounced on her? She's a Freddy Fazbear's Pizza animatronic (unless I'm forgetting about a robot that may have tackled Florence Ambrose in FreeFall; in which case she's just a simple robot.)!
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#70 Post by Xerkus »

BadFoMo wrote:If she is then that means that Karen (or at least this one) is actually a robot! And if that wasn't bad enough, did you see the way she pounced on her? She's a Freddy Fazbear's Pizza animatronic (unless I'm forgetting about a robot that may have tackled Florence Ambrose in FreeFall; in which case she's just a simple robot.)!
oh my...
If we assume Karen is indeed a robot then she follow 3 laws, that is why she was that harmless. Especially taking into account broad definition of human by doctor Bowman.

On the side note, are those animatronics 20+ years old? That would explain some things...

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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#71 Post by Bellhead »

Chris wrote:
I've had similar blunders as well, in different situations. It's more of "our kind" as in "my kind", speaking as he would have at the point in time in question, rather than as he would when he was talking to her. For instance, I've refered to my family as "us", even when none of them are present.
I think that's different. A family is a collective group, and you've (presumably) been raised with them in such an environment, so you'd continue to think of them as a group even if they're no longer physically present. In contrast Sythe met Raine as a human and started to get to know her as a human. First impressions are quite strong, so for him to so suddenly switch to thinking of her as a Keidran by default, her new form must've had a pretty strong impression on him. Surely, it's possible it's just because he doesn't want to be the only Keidran among a group of not-very-grateful humans, but it could also be because, as a Keidran himself, he finds her more attractive as a Keidran. Or maybe a bit of both.
I think you may have contradicted yourself a bit there. Tom has stated that the reason for naming Keidran by their tribe instead of family is that each one is brought up more by the community than by their individual parents. And we have no reason to suspect that he was raised out of the influence of that. You also say that first impressions are important, and that Sythe first saw her as a human, and first got to know her as a human, right? So he was raised as a child of a wolf tribe (which is effectively one big family), and met a girl he got to know as human.
Chris wrote:
Bellhead wrote:(sorry for snippage, saving space.) While she has not said so, she has expressed her feelings, see earlier in post.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on that. I think she was too busy freaking out about her transformation by the time Red asked her out, so she was thinking like "of all the times for someone to ask me out, it has to be when I'm turning into a Keidran". Her thoughts immediately went to thinking about "them" and what they'll think of her being a Keidran, rather than Red specifically.
True. With all that was going on at the time, it is a little hard to tell exactly what's going through her head.
Chris wrote:
Bellhead wrote:Sythe knows how much Red likes her. Red's made it clear, if only to him. Now about Sythe being attracted to Raine.. he might be. But as I stated, he won't act on it until Raine and Red are far out of the question.
Red's implied to Sythe that he likes Raine, but Sythe has done the same. As far as the comic's shown, Sythe doesn't know Red went so far as to ask her out, let alone what Raine's response would be.
Remind me again... When has Sythe shown an interest in Raine to Red, aside from 784? Anything else (that I can think of, anyway) I'd classify as him being a good friend, trying to make her feel better.
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#72 Post by Neutral Smith »

Could be interesting, two men who love Raine, and she has to make a choice between them.

And they can not kill each other, because then Raine will hate the one who killed/failed to save the other.
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#73 Post by Chris »

Bellhead wrote:I think you may have contradicted yourself a bit there. Tom has stated that the reason for naming Keidran by their tribe instead of family is that each one is brought up more by the community than by their individual parents. And we have no reason to suspect that he was raised out of the influence of that. You also say that first impressions are important, and that Sythe first saw her as a human, and first got to know her as a human, right? So he was raised as a child of a wolf tribe (which is effectively one big family), and met a girl he got to know as human.
That's two separate things. The family thing was a response to why someone (in the real world) would continue to occasionally think about their family as "us" even after they're no longer there. Basically, most people grow up with the concept of an immediate family being "us", and it takes time to get over that when it's no longer the case. However, for Sythe, he met and got to know Raine as a human, but it took him no time at all to consider her a keidran after her transformation.
Remind me again... When has Sythe shown an interest in Raine to Red, aside from 784?
That's pretty much what I mean, and it was a pretty heavy-handed implication too (it would have to be, for Red to pick up on it). Aside from that, though not directly to Red, Sythe has shown a bigger interest in Raine ever since she changed, first complimenting her new form, then getting depressed when she started changing back, and then sitting down and getting to know each other more after she reverted back to keidran. I'll admit this is all circumstantial, but it does fit.
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#74 Post by Bellhead »

Chris wrote:
Bellhead wrote:I think you may have contradicted yourself a bit there. Tom has stated that the reason for naming Keidran by their tribe instead of family is that each one is brought up more by the community than by their individual parents. And we have no reason to suspect that he was raised out of the influence of that. You also say that first impressions are important, and that Sythe first saw her as a human, and first got to know her as a human, right? So he was raised as a child of a wolf tribe (which is effectively one big family), and met a girl he got to know as human.
That's two separate things. The family thing was a response to why someone (in the real world) would continue to occasionally think about their family as "us" even after they're no longer there. Basically, most people grow up with the concept of an immediate family being "us", and it takes time to get over that when it's no longer the case. However, for Sythe, he met and got to know Raine as a human, but it took him no time at all to consider her a keidran after her transformation.
What's the difference you see between a family if 4-6 and a family of 30-40 (give or take)?
Chris wrote:
Bellhead wrote:Remind me again... When has Sythe shown an interest in Raine to Red, aside from 784?
That's pretty much what I mean, and it was a pretty heavy-handed implication too (it would have to be, for Red to pick up on it). Aside from that, though not directly to Red, Sythe has shown a bigger interest in Raine ever since she changed, first complimenting her new form, then getting depressed when she started changing back, and then sitting down and getting to know each other more after she reverted back to keidran. I'll admit this is all circumstantial, but it does fit.
If we go by that reasoning, every girl I say "Hello" or "How are you today" or "is there anything I can do" or "You look nice" is a girl I'm interested in. It's not hard to be polite to more than those you have a crush on.
I have discussed page 784 earlier, my point still stands that he only intended to make Red think, and not make him jealous.
So he's being nice. Until I see him jealous of Red, or acting against RainexRed, I will see him as being a good, supportive friend and little to nothing more.
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Re: Comic for Thursday, January 15 2015

#75 Post by Chris »

Bellhead wrote:What's the difference you see between a family if 4-6 and a family of 30-40 (give or take)?
I don't know how a communal family would work on an individual's psyche compared to a typical human family, but that's not my point. My point is that it's not easy to break first impressions very quickly, but Raine changing into a keidran did that for Sythe. This girl he's only ever known to be human suddenly sprouts fur, and he can't help but to think of her to be like that normally. I doubt Sythe would think the same if it was Red that changed instead of Raine.
Chris wrote:Aside from that, though not directly to Red, Sythe has shown a bigger interest in Raine ever since she changed, first complimenting her new form, then getting depressed when she started changing back, and then sitting down and getting to know each other more after she reverted back to keidran. I'll admit this is all circumstantial, but it does fit.
If we go by that reasoning, every girl I say "Hello" or "How are you today" or "is there anything I can do" or "You look nice" is a girl I'm interested in.
This isn't a polite "Hello," or "How can I help." After not showing interest previously, he suddenly goes 'Hey, you look pretty cute like that', then '*sigh* She's not like me anymore.'. Again, this doesn't seem to be behavior that he'd have shown if it was Red in Raine's place.
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