Comic Page for Monday, May 5th 2014

[BillyreadsTwoKinds]

I just had a brain wave. For all of you (Myself included early on) arguing about Natani's soul, and the "Feminine" and "Masculine" sides, I have to wonder what the point is. Now, I don't mean the debate is meaningless, but I feel that we are debating something that just doesn't matter in the long run.

Some people want a "Feminine" Natani, while some want a "Masculine" Natani, and for some strange reason, the only way she can be remotely masculine/feminine is because of her soul. But, I ask you this!

Does it matter how somebody was born, or altered? Does that affect how they percieve the world? People change, as they experience and learn, as they are injured, as they are sent into the unknown? Should a part of a soul be the entire reason for somebody's masculinity or femininity?

The way I see it, the whole soul excuse, making Natani more masculine, is a mental escape, a crutch to rely on. When in reality, none of this matters. We are shaped by our experiences, and by what happens to us in life. From the get-go, Natani was a very tom-boyish character, which is evidenced in his backstory.

Natani wanted to join a guild of assassins, and since they wouldn't accept women, he had to become a man, through the art of disguise. In reality, when Natani was cursed, he already had a very masculine mentality, and maybe there was no change in Natani after all regarding his personality. Maybe, just maybe, it was an assurance, something that confirms his mental feelings.

All of the problems that Natani mentally faces come from his experiences with life, not with the soul, but with his battles, his emotions, his body. It all boils down to the fact that maybe the soul never mattered... Maybe it was just Natani's own being trying to shine through.

That's not to see he hasn't been influenced by Zen, far from it. But even so, I feel that Natani is on a journey of self-discovery, a journey he has been on ever since he was orphaned with Zen. The breaking of his soul was just an obstacle, which Natani has overcame.

Now, I will admit, the soul holds importance in keeping somebody alive, mentally, since Natani was comatose when he was hit with the black magic. But that has nothing to do with gender or sex, it literally was just a way to hollow out a person's body.

Now, I know for a fact that none of you will agree with me, but I'm sticking with this theory, just because it makes Natani more "human" in an emotional and relatable sense.

[Ponjos]

I finally had a chance to read this comic page and I want to say "Well done Tom."
I think this page is great. It moves the story along and ends on a funny.

[Bellhead]

Perhaps when the soul's meting spell was cast Zen received part of soul and mind of his sister, and now is half female

Not likely, "In order to save my life, my brother melded his soul with my own. His soul kept the pieces of mine together and filled in anything missing". As such, Zen's held Natani's together, nothing more. Natani's soul was no more than linked, pardon the pun, and it did not go from Natani to Zen in any other way. It was Zen's soul that is now embedded into Natani.

[DrakeArron]

The way I see it, the whole soul excuse, making Natani more masculine, is a mental escape, a crutch to rely on. When in reality, none of this matters. We are shaped by our experiences, and by what happens to us in life. From the get-go, Natani was a very tom-boyish character, which is evidenced in his backstory.

Natani wanted to join a guild of assassins, and since they wouldn't accept women, he had to become a man, through the art of disguise. In reality, when Natani was cursed, he already had a very masculine mentality, and maybe there was no change in Natani after all regarding his personality. Maybe, just maybe, it was an assurance, something that confirms his mental feelings.

All of the problems that Natani mentally faces come from his experiences with life, not with the soul, but with his battles, his emotions, his body. It all boils down to the fact that maybe the soul never mattered... Maybe it was just Natani's own being trying to shine through.



Now, I know for a fact that none of you will agree with me, but I'm sticking with this theory, just because it makes Natani more "human" in an emotional and relatable sense.

Um. I... I agree with you... :3
EDIT: I meant to put this in a spoiler, but I forgot that here this stuff is just blacked out, not shortened. Oh well :/
The main reason I do is something that I'm amazed hasn't been brought up more, I'll quote it again-
Natani wanted to join a guild of assassins, and since they wouldn't accept women, he had to become a man, through the art of disguise. In reality, when Natani was cursed, he already had a very masculine mentality, and maybe there was no change in Natani after all regarding his personality. Maybe, just maybe, it was an assurance, something that confirms his mental feelings.
Now, some might say "but that's coincidence. Natani may have had to do that, but it doesn't mean he/she agreed with it."
If this were the real world, I would completely agree with that. However- This is not the real world. It is a fictional world of Tom's, and if I've learned anything from english class, if it looks like there could be a connection there, there probably is. Why would tom have that happen, have Natani figuratively become a boy in many respects before actually becoming one mentally? Yes, it could, in a way, be foreshadowing. Except I feel like this is a little bit to big of a topic to warant something like that just for foreshadowing.

Even so, even if its not that, Billy still has a point. It is not ingrained in someone from birth whether they are "male or female". (This is actually something I wish we could get into peoples heads IRL). It is all in who they think they are. Think of it this way-

There is a girl named Stacy. She, after birth, is brought up entirely as a guy. Everyone treats her that way and it is the exact same as if she actually were a guy. Now, later on, she/he has conflicts in whether or not she actually is one. If she/he went back to being a girl mentally, I garuntee you most would say "it was in her nature from the start". If she/he stayed as a boy, many would say "That way of treating brainwashed her". Both are possible, and valid. Except what about herself/himself? Isn't it possible that if she/he went back to being a girl, it was just what she preffered, or the same for being a guy?

I think the same applies to Natani. Heck, even if in the end Natani DOES end up being entirely in a affair, in- depth relationship, etc. with Kieth, that wouldn't neccesarily mean she/he is a girl in mind either. She/he could very well end up thinking of her/himself as a gay male. Or a male to female transgender. Or a male that prefers some female sides of her/himself. Or a female the same way. Or bi.

There are SO MANY possibilities, many of them never ending up as he/she being purely female or male.
To be honest, I think the main reason we have a problem with this is this- whatever the end result is, how do we refer to her/him? What should we expect out of her/him? These are the main things that I think are in conflict, and I can understand. We, as humans, aren't often used to anything other than male/female. Even if some of us have encountered Bi's, I seriously doubt we expect of them and treat them as both sexes. We would do to them as they look, its in our nature. Our unconcous compass is conflicting with how things are.

(Sorry for any spelling errors.)

Oh, also, I haven't actually read really any of the discussion, I just got inspired to write about it from Billy's post... so sorry if I repeated some things stupidly...

[BillyreadsTwoKinds]

Snipitty snip snip

Nice explanation. I'm glad that I have somebody that agrees with me, makes it more of a valid point when more than one person agrees.

[obi-wan]

Perhaps when the soul's meting spell was cast Zen received part of soul and mind of his sister, and now is half female

Not likely, "In order to save my life, my brother melded his soul with my own. His soul kept the pieces of mine together and filled in anything missing". As such, Zen's held Natani's together, nothing more. Natani's soul was no more than linked, pardon the pun, and it did not go from Natani to Zen in any other way. It was Zen's soul that is now embedded into Natani.

We know that everything in the nature tends to the balance, but if Natani received soul, mind and telepathic link from her brother, where is the balance if Zen only received the telepathic link from his sister?

[BillyreadsTwoKinds]

Perhaps when the soul's meting spell was cast Zen received part of soul and mind of his sister, and now is half female

Not likely, "In order to save my life, my brother melded his soul with my own. His soul kept the pieces of mine together and filled in anything missing". As such, Zen's held Natani's together, nothing more. Natani's soul was no more than linked, pardon the pun, and it did not go from Natani to Zen in any other way. It was Zen's soul that is now embedded into Natani.

We know that everything in the nature tends to the balance, but if Natani received soul, mind and telepathic link, where is the balance if Zen just received the telepathic link only?

Since when did the nature of the real world apply to the world of TwoKinds?

[jacobc62]

Meanwhile in the corner of the room where there ISN'T wall-text.....

Damnit it Natani.... You just avoided a question that NEEDED to be awnsered!

[obi-wan]

Perhaps when the soul's meting spell was cast Zen received part of soul and mind of his sister, and now is half female

Not likely, "In order to save my life, my brother melded his soul with my own. His soul kept the pieces of mine together and filled in anything missing". As such, Zen's held Natani's together, nothing more. Natani's soul was no more than linked, pardon the pun, and it did not go from Natani to Zen in any other way. It was Zen's soul that is now embedded into Natani.

We know that everything in the nature tends to the balance, but if Natani received soul, mind and telepathic link from her brother, where is the balance if Zen only received the telepathic link for his sister?

Since when did the nature of the real world apply to the world of TwoKinds?

the nature is always present and I think the magic is a force of the nature too

[Him]

Meanwhile in the corner of the room where there ISN'T wall-text.....

Damnit it Natani.... You just avoided a question that NEEDED to be awnsered!

It will never be that easy. Sometimes I wish it was... but then I remember that the longer it's drawn out the sweeter it will be when answered.

[BadFoMo]

The way I've interpreted their situation is that Zen was used as a “Master Print” and the pieces of Natani which were missing was simply replaced with information copied over from the master. The link between them is how the information was carried over and it still being there is the side effect of this process.

So according to you, it was like a one-time copy and the link is just a remnant of it. The way *I* had imagined it, it was like a continual streaming of data between them. Like, you have two computers, and one damages some of its essential system files, so it gets connected to the other one (i.e. the link) and any files it needs it reads off the other one (i.e. the missing gender files). But nothing is ever "copied over", the gender files still stay on Zen's hard drive, and still are read *from there* constantly by Natani, and so if the link is severed she'll die. This is of course assuming that her soul hasn't "healed" to some degree, as some people have said it has.

The fact of the matter is, we don't know how souls work. We don't know how they work with respect to gender and sexual orientation, we don't know how the soul maintenance operation between Zen and Natani functions, we just don't know. Here's a point to consider, if science works differently in twokinds compared to our world, how do you know gender and sexuality work the same way? Especially for someone like Natani, who's had this "soul merger", something with no equivalent in our world. How can we compare her gender situation to that of any person in our world? And if her soul *is* healing, whether that means copying the parts that Zen is lending or restoring the original parts that were lost, the effects of that in relation to her "gender" are simply... unknown.

You're right, we don't know how souls work in reality or in many fictions. However I think we did get a little more information on how their link works from Tom. Now I don't know where I read it, but I remember hearing that Natani only needed the link for the first couple weeks or months. Zen could easily be killed now and Natani would physically be fine (note I said physically).

[Bellhead]

Perhaps when the soul's meting spell was cast Zen received part of soul and mind of his sister, and now is half female

Not likely, "In order to save my life, my brother melded his soul with my own. His soul kept the pieces of mine together and filled in anything missing". As such, Zen's held Natani's together, nothing more. Natani's soul was no more than linked, pardon the pun, and it did not go from Natani to Zen in any other way. It was Zen's soul that is now embedded into Natani.

We know that everything in the nature tends to the balance, but if Natani received soul, mind and telepathic link from her brother, where is the balance if Zen only received the telepathic link from his sister?

The way I read it, the link was established by Zen melding his soul with Natani's, so Zen's soul was in two places at once, via magic. Natani's soul didn't go anywhere, some of it just got destroyed and/or damaged.

[jacobc62]

Meanwhile in the corner of the room where there ISN'T wall-text.....

Damnit it Natani.... You just avoided a question that NEEDED to be awnsered!

It will never be that easy. Sometimes I wish it was... but then I remember that the longer it's drawn out the sweeter it will be when answered.

It's been drawn out now for a couple of years!

[Stormlight]

Meanwhile in the corner of the room where there ISN'T wall-text.....

Damnit it Natani.... You just avoided a question that NEEDED to be awnsered!

It will never be that easy. Sometimes I wish it was... but then I remember that the longer it's drawn out the sweeter it will be when answered.

It's been drawn out now for a couple of years!

At least they both finally admitted that something exists between them. The relationship might progress a little quicker now that it's out in the open / semi official / whatever, and they won't be awkwardly trying to pretend. Instead, Tom will probably throw them into a whole bunch of other wonderfully hilarious situations with the others in the party as Natani grapples with all this. As someone else said on this thread, it's really all up to Natani now.

I can't see Natani resolving his/her gender issues soon, but I can see Natani accepting how he/she feels for Keith and letting him help Natani work through it. (especially with Keith's recent openness, or after a semi-panicked conversation with Kat. I call it. ). I seriously believe that it won't be long now.

Anyway, i like this 'new' Keith. I think it would be wonderful to see the joking, playful Keith that Alaric described make a comeback, and it would certainly make for some interesting story material (Imagine everyone's shock if he makes a joke while they're around ). The fact that Keith is the one initiating things and making a move in this comic shows just how far he's come.

[loxmyth]

Just wanted to add my voice to those saying the page was worth the wait. (Even if I had to register in order to do so.)