Do Shields Exist in Twokinds?

[judah4]

This has been bugging me for a while. I've checked all the pages and no where do I see anyone using or carrying a shield. Everyone carry swords, spears, or something else like Eric's bother but no one has a shield when when they one one-handed swords which makes me think shields do not exist in the world of Twokinds or very little people use them. Even the marching Templar army don't have shields in chapter 13. I would imaging shields making a huge difference against swords, spears, and arrows, yet I see no one with them.

What do you guys think?

[avwolf]

We know that Trace understands the concept of "shield" well enough to make himself one of magic. It stands to reason, therefore, that shields exist, even though we have not yet seen them in play. (I'd blame Hollywood fight choreography and the need for blocking characters on the page for that: we consider clashing swords to be more fun to see than a sword striking a shield, even though it's less realistic, and a big piece of metal or wood held in front of a character makes them hard to see, and therefore makes blocking out a comic page much more difficult.)

[NothingIsSure]

This has been bugging me for a while. I've checked all the pages and no where do I see anyone using or carrying a shield. Everyone carry swords, spears, or something else like Eric's bother but no one has a shield when when they one one-handed swords which makes me think shields do not exist in the world of Twokinds or very little people use them. Even the marching Templar army don't have shields in chapter 13. I would imaging shields making a huge difference against swords, spears, and arrows, yet I see no one with them.

What do you guys think?

I've checked all the pages too, and found nothing but Natani casting "magic shield" spell - so obviously people in the Twokinds universe knows that they exists... perhaps out of fashion?

[obi-wan]

This has been bugging me for a while. I've checked all the pages and no where do I see anyone using or carrying a shield. Everyone carry swords, spears, or something else like Eric's bother but no one has a shield when when they one one-handed swords which makes me think shields do not exist in the world of Twokinds or very little people use them. Even the marching Templar army don't have shields in chapter 13. I would imaging shields making a huge difference against swords, spears, and arrows, yet I see no one with them.

What do you guys think?

maybe they only use a longsword, doing very difficulty the use of a shield

[CrimsonButterfly]

http://twokinds.keenspot.com/archive.php?p=22

Third panel, I think the blue thing on the left is a shield. Old comic, but whatever. I thought I saw one in less voyant colors somewhere, but don't remember anyone holding one. We haven't seen that great a variety of weapons in the comic anyways.

But apart anything that might be decoration, I'm not sure about anything. Amongst all the random points, I'd say a heavy shield wouldn't help mobility, and wouldn't be good against fireballs. Not sure a lighter shield would be worth much, either.

Eh, I'd guess shields do exist, but are not very used. Not sure when they'd be worth the trouble. Especially when half of the fights involve crazy magic users.

[Bellhead]

Eh, I'd guess shields do exist, but are not very used. Not sure when they'd be worth the trouble.

I agree. The templar soldiers in that page had heavy armor, so I doubt they'd need a sheild.

That, and there are the three races:
Basitin, which are a warrior race, and may even berate the use of a shield,
Keidran, which are far too agile to need a shield and wouldn't want it, and
Humans, which can just make one out of mana.

In any case, a shield simply would not have been practical thus far into the comic, and may never be. We may begin to see them later, maybe after they make landfall, but only Tom knows for sure.

[judah4]

We know that Trace understands the concept of "shield" well enough to make himself one of magic. It stands to reason, therefore, that shields exist, even though we have not yet seen them in play. (I'd blame Hollywood fight choreography and the need for blocking characters on the page for that: we consider clashing swords to be more fun to see than a sword striking a shield, even though it's less realistic, and a big piece of metal or wood held in front of a character makes them hard to see, and therefore makes blocking out a comic page much more difficult.)

I forgot about that spell So, the concept exists but no one uses them.

http://twokinds.keenspot.com/archive.php?p=22

Third panel, I think the blue thing on the left is a shield. Old comic, but whatever. I thought I saw one in less voyant colors somewhere, but don't remember anyone holding one. We haven't seen that great a variety of weapons in the comic anyways.

But apart anything that might be decoration, I'm not sure about anything. Amongst all the random points, I'd say a heavy shield wouldn't help mobility, and wouldn't be good against fireballs. Not sure a lighter shield would be worth much, either.

Eh, I'd guess shields do exist, but are not very used. Not sure when they'd be worth the trouble. Especially when half of the fights involve crazy magic users.

That thing on the wall always made me think emblem in the shape of a shield but not an actual shield to block things with. Atleast a shield would stop the fireball from hitting you directly.

That, and there are the three races:
Basitin, which are a warrior race, and may even berate the use of a shield,
Keidran, which are far too agile to need a shield and wouldn't want it, and
Humans, which can just make one out of mana.

This is close to what I was thinking. Keidran being agile, they would rely on speed and strength and basitins probably are trained to not use one. For humans, I guess magic is the case but shields could give some protection against magic and they will still be great against arrows which I know the Keidran seem to use often.

[trantor]

We have to remember that most humans can't use magic. (you know - "normal people")

Maybe shields are only used by the soldiers of the human king. And we haven't seen any of them until now. The templar are a independent faction from the king and what we saw was a templar army.

[MuonNeutrino]

I personally would expect that shields would be used, just as they were in real life.

Most people don't realize just how brutally effective a weapon shields really are. There's a reason that they were an essential battlefield tool for so long - they work, really well. Our ancestors weren't stupid. If they did something, fought in a certain way, there probably was a reason for it, and in this case it's because the sword and shield were an absolutely deadly combination on the battlefield.

Shields generally were not heavy. For one, they were almost always made of wood, not metal, and even a shield several feet across would have weighed at most ten pounds because they were made of thinner layers of wood rather than thick planks. For a strong, fit soldier, that's pretty negligible. They didn't need to be heavier, because the primary benefit of a shield is that it's mobile. It can ride with blows to absorb them, or move to deflect them to the side, and making it heavier in the mistaken belief that you need weight to absorb blows just makes it harder to use. Shields are also a brutally effective *offensive* weapon, as well. They were very commonly used to strike at, beat away, or trap an opponent's weapon and leave them open, and they were also commonly used simply to hit the enemy with, especially the varieties that were rimmed with metal strips or had a metal umbo in the middle. They added little to a warrior's load, and especially in combination with a sword the ability to attack and defend simultaneously is deadly.

The Templar may well not need them. As pointed out, they do wear plate armor, which (along with gunpowder) was indeed what finally rendered the shield obsolete in real life, and they do have the ability to create magical shields at need. However, humans in general ought to use them, since they shouldn't share either of those properties. Basitin and keidran ought to use them even moreso - the style of fighting with a shield rather than heavy armor fits the keidran 'light' warriors perfectly, and the military-oriented basitin would never pass up such an effective weapon.

I would guess that they probably haven't shown up in the comic primarily for stylistic reasons, as Avwolf suggests, along with partially the fact that a lot of the characters we've met either aren't the sort that would carry them or aren't in the sorts of *situations* where they'd carry them. The shield is a *battlefield* tool, and most people wouldn't be carrying them around as a matter of course if there isn't a war on. The only place where I really would have been surprised not to see them was the basitin isles.

[imalbert]

The templar are a independent faction from the king and what we saw was a templar army.

At this point, it could be said that they were an independent faction. They may have even installed their own puppet monarch.

[judah4]

Shields!

Thank you, that was a good response.

I was going to say keidran use spears more often than other weapons but I saw the Wolves in chapter 12 where using a staff and swords too. I'm thinking they move up in the trees and anything larger than a buckler can get caught on branches and slow them down.

Basitins, I have no idea why they wouldn't use them. As you said, for a heavily militarized society, shields would make sense for them to use but I have not seen any basitins with them.

I wish we could see a less magical human army so we can see what they use. I always thought they still used shields with platemail because its even better protection.

There is a war going on now with the wolves so I'm hoping we get to see shields if they do exist. Or maybe Tom absolutely hates shields and drawing them

[The Rookie]

Basitins, I have no idea why they wouldn't use them. As you said, for a heavily militarized society, shields would make sense for them to use but I have not seen any basitins with them.

My guess is that it might have something to do with either their fighting style or their code of honour. From what I can tell, Basitin culture seems to be sort of a mixture of medieval German and Japanese societies. With that in mind, Japanese soldiers were known to forgo shields in battle because their methods of sword fighting generally required two hands. I guess after a few generations of using those styles it might have become dishonourable for a solider to use a shield in battle as it may have made them appear cowardly.

I'm not all that sure, my knowledge on Japanese history is pretty sketchy at best

[Bellhead]

Snip

Snip

For that, I present this. The basitin Keith was fighting used a sword in one hand, and a staff in the other. I wager the "Basitin Standard" involves structured strategical use of both limbs as weapon-bearing, and as such would have no use for a shield. Feel free to contradict. It's late here, and I'm kinda tired.

[MuonNeutrino]

For that, I present this. The basitin Keith was fighting used a sword in one hand, and a staff in the other. I wager the "Basitin Standard" involves structured strategical use of both limbs as weapon-bearing, and as such would have no use for a shield. Feel free to contradict. It's late here, and I'm kinda tired.

Keep in mind, the basitin Keith was fighting *started out* using just the polearm. He only pulled out the sword when Keith got too close. If you look at the next comic, he's dropped the polearm completely and is just holding the sword, so he's never actually using both at the same time. This is actually a very realistic bit, here. A pole weapon and a single-hand sword for backup close work was a very common combination, for exactly the reason portrayed in the comic - a polearm is useless if your opponent can close inside the reach of the blade (granted, the polearms in question were usually longer, but close enough).

As for the basitin style, if it involves using both hands to bear weapons, that is *literally* the exact description of fighting with a sword and shield. A shield is not just a defense - a shield is a weapon, just as much as a sword is. It is an active tool that is used offensively to strike, beat, pull, trap, bind, and otherwise inflict damage and create openings to exploit with your other weapon. The basitin Keith was fighting may not have been armed with them, but i cannot possibly imagine that the basitin people could have overlooked such an effective weapon combo.

[Myperson54]

Good answers, Muon! I'd like to also point out that, as you said, in the case of the Basitins: Although Shields suit them perfectly, many if not most of the Basitin guards we've observed have carried a glaive or bill, or some other kind of polearm. Probably partly because of this, a shield would be impractical on such characters, and were simply not added to them. Others, I can't really think of an excuse for. (I actually kinda figured the Basitins would be suited for Tower Shields, but that's more aesthetics than anything else.)