Do Shields Exist in Twokinds?

[jacobc62]

if it involves using both hands to bear weapons, that is *literally* the exact description of fighting with a sword and shield. A shield is not just a defense - a shield is a weapon, just as much as a sword is. It is an active tool that is used offensively to strike, beat, pull, trap, bind, and otherwise inflict damage and create openings to exploit with your other weapon.

This is the reason Spartans had such large gigantic shields, it's so they can use them not just for defense, but also as weapons. In both 300 and it's parody, Meet the Spartans, both had realistic Spartan weapons and both featured the Spartan shield being used to knock back Persian soldiers. This type of shield helped the Spartans in their battles against whomever they fought.

[Hoppy]

Fun fact: my forum name began as a version of 'Hoplite' , a Greek soldier that used a spear and shield for battle. Typically, they wore a helm and shin greaves, and a cuirass of leather and brass for armor. Heavy infantry for their time.

[The Rookie]

if it involves using both hands to bear weapons, that is *literally* the exact description of fighting with a sword and shield. A shield is not just a defense - a shield is a weapon, just as much as a sword is. It is an active tool that is used offensively to strike, beat, pull, trap, bind, and otherwise inflict damage and create openings to exploit with your other weapon.

This is the reason Spartans had such large gigantic shields, it's so they can use them not just for defense, but also as weapons. In both 300 and it's parody, Meet the Spartans, both had realistic Spartan weapons and both featured the Spartan shield being used to knock back Persian soldiers. This type of shield helped the Spartans in their battles against whomever they fought.

These two comments suddenly reminded me of the that show from a while back called Deadliest Warrior where they would take soldiers from different nations and compare their weapons, fighting styles and such to determine who was the "Deadliest Warrior". The reason I bring that up here is because there was an episode where they had a Spartan Hoplite up against a Japanese Samurai where the two fighting styles pretty much came down to sword and shield vs a two handed katana. I wouldn't rely so much on the 'simulation battle' bit, but the analyses of the weapons and styles was pretty interesting if anyone here was interested in having a look.

[Myperson54]

if it involves using both hands to bear weapons, that is *literally* the exact description of fighting with a sword and shield. A shield is not just a defense - a shield is a weapon, just as much as a sword is. It is an active tool that is used offensively to strike, beat, pull, trap, bind, and otherwise inflict damage and create openings to exploit with your other weapon.

This is the reason Spartans had such large gigantic shields, it's so they can use them not just for defense, but also as weapons. In both 300 and it's parody, Meet the Spartans, both had realistic Spartan weapons and both featured the Spartan shield being used to knock back Persian soldiers. This type of shield helped the Spartans in their battles against whomever they fought.

These two comments suddenly reminded me of the that show from a while back called Deadliest Warrior where they would take soldiers from different nations and compare their weapons, fighting styles and such to determine who was the "Deadliest Warrior". The reason I bring that up here is because there was an episode where they had a Spartan Hoplite up against a Japanese Samurai where the two fighting styles pretty much came down to sword and shield vs a two handed katana. I wouldn't rely so much on the 'simulation battle' bit, but the analyses of the weapons and styles was pretty interesting if anyone here was interested in having a look.

That's a really interesting contrast in style, actually. While the spartan has a shield for ramming and blocking, his sword (and therefore effective reach) is likely much shorter than the samurai, who'd use a longer Katana or Odachi (Or, if from an earlier period, a Tachi or Uchigatana). The Spartan also would have a heavier sword, and would wield it in one hand in this scenario, leading to a slash/hack fighting style. (This is also, if memory serves, how the normal fighting style would've been anyways. Nothing fancy, just slashing.) The samurai, on the other hand, would be trained in any number of techniques under the umbrella of Kenjutsu, and not only would have more technical control over their weapon, they'd have more control due to their two-handed grip. (Unless they were using dual Tanto/Shoto, which I'm not confident was a style back then.)

So there is my situational analysis based on weaponry and style alone.

[BadJoke]

We didn't saw shields maybe because we hadn't the opportunity: Basitins we saw fight were archers who had to react quickly when their king was attacked or insane commanders (and basitins are all insane with their "honor code" and tradition of stagnation), templars were armor-clad and in march (no shield would serve in hand) and they use mana, we never saw no magician human fighters and Keidrans were a chief with what could be his close advisers more than first line fighters and a furious female (and it never was an open field fight).

They know what are shields so i think we will probably saw some when wide-range battle will begun.

[Ponjos]

if it involves using both hands to bear weapons, that is *literally* the exact description of fighting with a sword and shield. A shield is not just a defense - a shield is a weapon, just as much as a sword is. It is an active tool that is used offensively to strike, beat, pull, trap, bind, and otherwise inflict damage and create openings to exploit with your other weapon.

This is the reason Spartans had such large gigantic shields, it's so they can use them not just for defense, but also as weapons. In both 300 and it's parody, Meet the Spartans, both had realistic Spartan weapons and both featured the Spartan shield being used to knock back Persian soldiers. This type of shield helped the Spartans in their battles against whomever they fought.

These two comments suddenly reminded me of the that show from a while back called Deadliest Warrior where they would take soldiers from different nations and compare their weapons, fighting styles and such to determine who was the "Deadliest Warrior". The reason I bring that up here is because there was an episode where they had a Spartan Hoplite up against a Japanese Samurai where the two fighting styles pretty much came down to sword and shield vs a two handed katana. I wouldn't rely so much on the 'simulation battle' bit, but the analyses of the weapons and styles was pretty interesting if anyone here was interested in having a look.

I remember that show... it was great.

[Dak Ramsin]

I roomed with a history major who specialized in medieval Europe until just recently, and his analysis was basically Shield > All until the creation of gunpowder / the crossbow. Shields were not solely defensive tools and were used by... well pretty much everyone. I feel like a warrior using a shield in the 2Kinds universe would be extremely deadly against everyone but a magic user, especially if s/he used a wooden shield without a metal banding. Wooden shields made of oak or other dense wood would actually get weapons stuck in them during battle, which gave the shield bearer the ability to easily wrestle weapons away from his/her opponent during a fight. That said, wooden shields would get absolutely wrecked by axes, but we haven't seen many of those either.

Oh and arrows. Without a shield any army would get destroyed by a well-placed long bow volley. Granted we don't know for sure if long bows exist in this world, but still. Hell, even short bows would do some serious damage if used correctly, and we for sure have those.

Just my 2 cents.

[Stormlight]

I personally stand by he viewpoint that Tom probably just doesn't like drawing shields for whatever reason, but when I think about it, we haven't really seen any "conventional" warfare in the comic. Even though shields are a vital weapon and defense tool, most of the fighting we've seen has centered around people who are ill equipped and/or not expecting a fight when it comes.

The only fighters that we've seen that were 1: part of a large, well equipped army or fighting force and 2: Prepared and expecting a fight were those Templars on the march and the Basitin defending the castle. In each case, they may not actually have been fully equipped.
- The Basitin were mostly archers hurriedly summoned to defend the castle, They only had a few seconds to respond when things wen't south, and being archers, would probably not have had shields anyway when they moved to defend King Adelaide.
- The Templar may rival the military, but they are not the military. They're combat mages. They may not use shields in favor of magical barriers, or want to have both hands free for spells, or rely on on their armor for some reason.

The only other fighters we've seen that knew they were going into combat well before they actually did were the Keidran who attacked the town, Eric's older brother, Zen, and Natani.
- Considering how Sythe had no armor and only that polearm as a weapon, it's pretty safe to assume that the Keidran were ill equipped guerrilla fighters preying on a town with few defenses, so it is plausible that they wouldn't have shields.
- Eric's brother was pretty much just going door to door asking questions. He's a scout, he didn't even have any backup. I believe that If he had actually found Trace's group he would have sounded the alarm instead of directly engaging the most powerful mage alive. The sword thing was probably there solely to look intimidating
- Zen and Natani are assassins. Assassins with no money. In the interest of stealth and unobtrusiveness, it makes sense that their largest weapons are swords, and those are only used as a last resort when deception, magic, poisons, arrows, those nifty throwing knives, and Zen's rope things don't work. Assassins don't usually directly confront their targets, preferring to stay hidden in the shadows. Shields are usually left at home.

[Commander-Strife]

The Keidrans whom attacked the town that group B was at (At the point where Sythe had no choice to accompany them, due to looking like a traitor and all... also with murder in their eyes) seemed more of a group of raiders than much of an army if anything, though I'm not sure honestly.

When it comes to shields, the smallest variant, the buckler would still be fairly useful, regardless of your weapon and could be made out of metal or even wood. Though it would do nothing to block arrows, the buckler in the basitin army could be used by any non-archer rather easily, but also samurai in Japan wore armor of silk and used a single sword witohut a shield, due to how tough Silk was as an armor, and also giving how light it was.
I think arrows kinda had trouble with silk armor, but I'm no history person.

For the Templar army, I imagine it'd be possible to make a magical barrier which instead of stopping an object, it would just absorb all the energy and momentum in said object, say a sword or arrow. After all, all mana really is, is just a very versatile energy... atleast I imagine so.

Sorry for the necro bump... just felt like adding in my two cents. I kinda really like to talk about theories for fictional worlds... I kinda can't help but make 'em myself, even if they're kinda silly.

But yeah... maybe Keidrans are just really, really tough or know how to evade a sword or polearm in their military, or maybe they work in the way of mobility and use hit and run tactics, or shock tactics to fight their enemies?

We know Basitins are just stupid crazy tough, since... you know... Alaric fell down like 10 feet into a ravine and survived for a little bit after being slashed, so maybe with their cloth armor, they have all the defense they need... also they don't seem to fight the other races, due to being isolated by choice on the island.

Humans... well I'm sure we'll see the King's army sport some shields for sure. Even if Shields are heavy, armies have classically trained with them until they could operate normally with them...

But yeah They're also tricky to draw, it depends on their size and shape...

Yeah, again, sorry for the necro bump, won't happen again. *Nervous Chuckle*

[DrakeArron]

okay guys... I'm sorry, but I'm going to be the guy who slaps you in the face with his reality stick.

Tom didn't draw shields because he didn't think to...

Seriously though, it seems to me that a lot of webcomics, and mideval stuff seem to not show shields. I might be wrong here, but I don't feel like I see them used a lot. Our culture always seems to exemplefy the sword... Maybe its because we haven't used a defensive item that is carried by the person, other then riot shields which aren't for fighting, in over several centuries?

[Warrl]

There is also the issue that standard-issue shields tend to cover the people using them so the people look standard-issue as well. Not everyone has a personal blazon to put on their shield (and the audience - heck, the comic artist - typically has little to no training in heraldry, to recognize and distinguish the blazons). And it can be tough enough distinguishing one character from another already - although this strip, with a relatively small core cast and multiple species, has it relatively easy on that count.

This is the same reason that stars in combat flicks rarely wear full battle armor of whatever sort is appropriate to the era the movie is set in (other than when the script calls for them to conspicuously take some of it off). You gotta figure the 5,000 spear carriers are all wearing full helmets for a good reason, otherwise nobody would have shelled out the wealth to buy them... so why isn't the star wearing one? Because if he were, the film audience couldn't easily tell him from the spear carriers, that's why.