Calling Natani a girl?

[obi-wan]

I try to refer to Natani by name to avoid these kinds of issues, but when I accidentally don't, I use one pronoun or the other and then almost immediately mentally correct my self to he/she.

The way I see it, if Natani hasn't yet decided on a gender for Natani then I'm not going to assign one.

On the other hand, when I'm discussing Natani's relationship with Keith and use a pronoun, It's almost always she because it's a lot less confusing and prevents "Wait, who are you referring to again?" kind of things.

Natani almost exclusively refers to himself as a man. The only time, to the best of my knowledge, Natani called himself a girl was when talking to Keith. He asked if the only reason why Keith was helping him because he was a, "Girl." I'm too tired to dig through the comics to find all times Natani has referred to himself as female.

I don't want to be rude with you, but if another want to use a female pronoun on Natani is in all his/her right, like you, is in all your right to use a male pronoun on Natani, this is a forum, and we can agree or disagree, but all the opinions are valids, there are not an absolute true, about this topic, in any case, will be Tom who have the last word on this topic

[Him]

I try to refer to Natani by name to avoid these kinds of issues, but when I accidentally don't, I use one pronoun or the other and then almost immediately mentally correct my self to he/she.

The way I see it, if Natani hasn't yet decided on a gender for Natani then I'm not going to assign one.

On the other hand, when I'm discussing Natani's relationship with Keith and use a pronoun, It's almost always she because it's a lot less confusing and prevents "Wait, who are you referring to again?" kind of things.

Natani almost exclusively refers to himself as a man. The only time, to the best of my knowledge, Natani called himself a girl was when talking to Keith. He asked if the only reason why Keith was helping him because he was a, "Girl." I'm too tired to dig through the comics to find all times Natani has referred to himself as female.

I don't want to be rude with you, but if another want to use a female pronoun on Natani is in all his/her right, like you, is in all your right to use a male pronoun on Natani, this is a forum, and we can agree or disagree, but all the opinions are valids, there are not an absolute, about this topic

"The way I see it, if Natani hasn't yet decided on a gender for Natani then I'm not going to assign one." I was responding to that. I was just pointing out that Natani mainly refers to himself as male. I wasn't disagreeing or anything, just stating fact. Stormlight said he would designate Natani as he designates himself. All I was doing was showing that he most commonly speaks of himself as a male. As you said, I don't want to be rude, but please read everything that is said before directly replying.

[obi-wan]

I try to refer to Natani by name to avoid these kinds of issues, but when I accidentally don't, I use one pronoun or the other and then almost immediately mentally correct my self to he/she.

The way I see it, if Natani hasn't yet decided on a gender for Natani then I'm not going to assign one.

On the other hand, when I'm discussing Natani's relationship with Keith and use a pronoun, It's almost always she because it's a lot less confusing and prevents "Wait, who are you referring to again?" kind of things.

Natani almost exclusively refers to himself as a man. The only time, to the best of my knowledge, Natani called himself a girl was when talking to Keith. He asked if the only reason why Keith was helping him because he was a, "Girl." I'm too tired to dig through the comics to find all times Natani has referred to himself as female.

I don't want to be rude with you, but if another want to use a female pronoun on Natani is in all his/her right, like you, is in all your right to use a male pronoun on Natani, this is a forum, and we can agree or disagree, but all the opinions are valids, there are not an absolute true, about this topic, in any case, will be Tom who have the last word on this topic

"The way I see it, if Natani hasn't yet decided on a gender for Natani then I'm not going to assign one." I was responding to that. I was just pointing out that Natani mainly refers to himself as male. I wasn't disagreeing or anything, just stating fact. Stormlight said he would designate Natani as he designates himself. All I was doing was showing that he most commonly speaks of himself as a female. As you said, I don't want to be rude, but please read everything that is said before directly replying.

As you said that is your point of view, allow to others have their own point of view, and if they want asignate a gender to Natani let them, is their prerogative.

[Him]

As you said that is your point of view, allow to others have their own point of view

What are you talking about? I'm not forcing anyone to change their opinion. I'm merely pointing something out. Stormlight said something and I provided information that could help him decide how to classify Natani. He also said that he refers to him as a girl to make it easier to talk about him. He might disregard what I said entirely, but that's his choice. You're trying to make a point about me that is false.

[Stormlight]

I try to refer to Natani by name to avoid these kinds of issues, but when I accidentally don't, I use one pronoun or the other and then almost immediately mentally correct my self to he/she.

The way I see it, if Natani hasn't yet decided on a gender for Natani then I'm not going to assign one.

On the other hand, when I'm discussing Natani's relationship with Keith and use a pronoun, It's almost always she because it's a lot less confusing and prevents "Wait, who are you referring to again?" kind of things.

Natani almost exclusively refers to himself as a man. The only time, to the best of my knowledge, Natani called himself a girl was when talking to Keith. He asked if the only reason why Keith was helping him because he was a, "Girl." I'm too tired to dig through the comics to find all times Natani has referred to himself as female.

My bad, I was a little unclear.
It is true that Natani sees Natani as male for most of the comic, but recently Natani's been questioning that identity, specifically when it comes to Keith and the feelings between them. So the way I see it, Natani did choose, but is now re-evaluating, and by virtue of not being sure, has not definitively chosen a gender.

Which brings up another question. Does Natani really have to choose a hard and fast gender to be? Not really. Natani defies gender assignments, so maybe we should just go with that instead of assigning a profile that will never be totally accurate.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Natani's gender is: Natani

[Fakefox]

I try to refer to Natani by name to avoid these kinds of issues, but when I accidentally don't, I use one pronoun or the other and then almost immediately mentally correct my self to he/she.

The way I see it, if Natani hasn't yet decided on a gender for Natani then I'm not going to assign one.

On the other hand, when I'm discussing Natani's relationship with Keith and use a pronoun, It's almost always she because it's a lot less confusing and prevents "Wait, who are you referring to again?" kind of things.

Natani almost exclusively refers to himself as a man. The only time, to the best of my knowledge, Natani called himself a girl was when talking to Keith. He asked if the only reason why Keith was helping him because he was a, "Girl." I'm too tired to dig through the comics to find all times Natani has referred to himself as female.

My bad, I was a little unclear.
It is true that Natani sees Natani as male for most of the comic, but recently Natani's been questioning that identity, specifically when it comes to Keith and the feelings between them. So the way I see it, Natani did choose, but is now re-evaluating, and by virtue of not being sure, has not definitively chosen a gender.

Which brings up another question. Does Natani really have to choose a hard and fast gender to be? Not really. Natani defies gender assignments, so maybe we should just go with that instead of assigning a profile that will never be totally accurate.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Natani's gender is: Natani

Isn't gender a sliding scale and Natani's somewhere past the middle? (comfortableish in female body but not with feminine gender role)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_scale

[Shiru]

It is possible to be agender (not identifying as either), bigender (identifying with both), or genderfluid (basically fluctuating between the two). And it is perfectly valid to read Natani as either of the latter two - bigender especially I think. Honestly Tom himself seems to treat Natani that way outside of canon, there's definitely an argument there.

[Bellhead]

I was just laughing to myself at the 11 forum pages so far on the topic of "What do we call Natani?" There's a song for this connundrum. And here it is.

Also: You guys DO realize that as Natani begins to truely accept her body, this argument will become progressively moot?

PS: When I refer to Natani, I refer to one of two halves of the psych, being the male half and the female half. So, it's like a battle between "her" and "him" for control of the female body. That's why I use "her", as I see the female half becoming more and more prominent.

[Stormlight]

Isn't gender a sliding scale and Natani's somewhere past the middle? (comfortableish in female body but not with feminine gender role)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_scale

Huh, I hadn't even considered that.

I suppose we could get a psychologist to give us some sort professional evaluation, but right now the way Natani views him/herself is changing. Which begs an interesting question: Even if we figure out what to call Natani now, where is Natani going, and should that influence what we call Natani?

It seems to me that after Natani's conversation with both Kat and King Adelaide, and the kiss at the tavern (shhh, don't let Natani hear us talking about it!), Natani might be moving to accept or even embrace his/her female side. I especially like Zen's comment about about his "younger brother" growing up into a "young woman". It's very possible that anything we say here will be invalidated as Natani changes Natani's point of view...But I'm going to keep talking about it anyway because the conjecture is fun.

[Fakefox]

Isn't gender a sliding scale and Natani's somewhere past the middle? (comfortableish in female body but not with feminine gender role)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_scale

Huh, I hadn't even considered that.

I suppose we could get a psychologist to give us some sort professional evaluation, but right now the way Natani views him/herself is changing. Which begs an interesting question: Even if we figure out what to call Natani now, where is Natani going, and should that influence what we call Natani?

It seems to me that after Natani's conversation with both Kat and King Adelaide, and the kiss at the tavern (shhh, don't let Natani hear us talking about it!), Natani might be moving to accept or even embrace his/her female side. I especially like Zen's comment about about his "younger brother" growing up into a "young woman". It's very possible that anything we say here will be invalidated as Natani changes Natani's point of view...But I'm going to keep talking about it anyway because the conjecture is fun.

i just get the feeling that Natani's pretty much a bi/gay transman who's a bit girly like the guy with the "fagot bike"

[obi-wan]

Isn't gender a sliding scale and Natani's somewhere past the middle? (comfortableish in female body but not with feminine gender role)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_scale

Huh, I hadn't even considered that.

I suppose we could get a psychologist to give us some sort professional evaluation, but right now the way Natani views him/herself is changing. Which begs an interesting question: Even if we figure out what to call Natani now, where is Natani going, and should that influence what we call Natani?

It seems to me that after Natani's conversation with both Kat and King Adelaide, and the kiss at the tavern (shhh, don't let Natani hear us talking about it!), Natani might be moving to accept or even embrace his/her female side. I especially like Zen's comment about about his "younger brother" growing up into a "young woman". It's very possible that anything we say here will be invalidated as Natani changes Natani's point of view...But I'm going to keep talking about it anyway because the conjecture is fun.

i just get the feeling that Natani's pretty much a bi/gay transman who's a bit girly like the guy with the "fagot bike"

I hope you are wrong and that she choose the light side

[Bellhead]

There seems to be a lot of that, talking of Natani as either gay, bi, or transgender, though I think that's the wrong direction.
What if what Natani is going through is closer to multiple personality? Like with her brother and her in the same body?

[Marnath]

My bad, I was a little unclear.
It is true that Natani sees Natani as male for most of the comic, but recently Natani's been questioning that identity, specifically when it comes to Keith and the feelings between them. So the way I see it, Natani did choose, but is now re-evaluating, and by virtue of not being sure, has not definitively chosen a gender.

Which brings up another question. Does Natani really have to choose a hard and fast gender to be? Not really. Natani defies gender assignments, so maybe we should just go with that instead of assigning a profile that will never be totally accurate.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Natani's gender is: Natani

I think it's more that Natani just doesn't know you can be a gay transman. He seems to be laboring under the impression that his attraction to Keith has to do with being biologically female. Which doesn't make any sense since otherwise where would lesbians come from?

I hope you are wrong and that she choose the light side

So there it is, you admitted it. Unlike some other people here you don't actually have a legitimate argument, you're just being trans-phobic.

[The Rookie]

I hope you are wrong and that she choose the light side

So there it is, you admitted it. Unlike some other people here you don't actually have a legitimate argument, you're just being trans-phobic.

Easy now, no need to start pointing accusations at people. It's possible that he just made a Star wars reference without considering that it may be taken as a sign of trans-phobia in this particular context.

[obi-wan]

I hope you are wrong and that she choose the light side

So there it is, you admitted it. Unlike some other people here you don't actually have a legitimate argument, you're just being trans-phobic.

Every point of view is legitimate, and I am not being phobic at all, it's just that no matter what you or I we can think about this topic, as I said before, Tom is the one who has the last word here.