Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#16 Post by Bellhead »

steelabjur wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:04 pm
Elemental Templar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:21 pm
Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:39 pm snip
snip

He gifts him to Adira as a protector for Maeve. With war on the horizon and plenty of potential dangers; I can't see why she'd say now to a Dragon-enchanted, Fire breathing Golem from the Grand Templar. (Plus having a fire breathing bouncer at a tavern would definitely dissuade drunken brawls)
If they were actually Templars, I suspect they were actually Clovis' minions. They came through the portal in Riftwall, after all, and pretended to be Templar before (twice). Adira might have been grabbed for the same reason Rom used the cuff on Kat...
That was my going theory at the time, that Adira was taken because she was the proprietor and manager of Riftwall. As a major part of the community, her word would be trusted if she were to "cry wolf", as it were, pun intended. She's not a wolf, and everyone in the area knows and respects her, so the real Templar would have no reason to detain her. Clovis' goons, on the other hand, would need to silence anyone capable of alerting a guard; be it by knockout, imprisonment, or worse. We mentioned it back then, but Adira made the right choice in fighting back without calling to, or mentioning, her daughter. Knowing what we do now, that may well have saved Maeve's life.

Now... Assuming Adira and Maeve make it out of whatever shenanigans they're respectively stuck in, and can return to the tavern, having Stoney around seems like it could go either way, honestly. We've seen Stoney's reactions to some generic social situations, so aside from his clear and obvious protective and combat abilities, he seems more like a trained dog when it comes to interactions. He makes pretty much one sound aside from the roar, pounces, and even Trace seemed to talk to him like a child who should have known better, or even a trained dog.

Having a creature like that protect a child would be a strong deterrent, but would such a creature be able to make a rational decision regarding drunken barflies? The line between 'civil discussion' and 'all-out brawl' can be deceptively thin, and very hard to see coming without a tavern owner's level of experience with drunks. Adira's almost certainly skilled enough to give a drunk the little shoulder-tap right before things turn awry, but even IF she could teach that skill to Stoney, I highly doubt any normal belligerent drunk would respond rationally when they turn around to see a 6'12" sentient stone lizard smiling at them. Especially if they were about to start a fight. He'd probably scare more customers than he'd protect, at least for the first few months. If not years.
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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#17 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Bellhead wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:13 am
steelabjur wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:04 pm
Elemental Templar wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 7:21 pm
Cpt. H.L. Rodney wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 7:39 pm snip
snip

He gifts him to Adira as a protector for Maeve. With war on the horizon and plenty of potential dangers; I can't see why she'd say now to a Dragon-enchanted, Fire breathing Golem from the Grand Templar. (Plus having a fire breathing bouncer at a tavern would definitely dissuade drunken brawls)
If they were actually Templars, I suspect they were actually Clovis' minions. They came through the portal in Riftwall, after all, and pretended to be Templar before (twice). Adira might have been grabbed for the same reason Rom used the cuff on Kat...
That was my going theory at the time, that Adira was taken because she was the proprietor and manager of Riftwall. As a major part of the community, her word would be trusted if she were to "cry wolf", as it were, pun intended. She's not a wolf, and everyone in the area knows and respects her, so the real Templar would have no reason to detain her. Clovis' goons, on the other hand, would need to silence anyone capable of alerting a guard; be it by knockout, imprisonment, or worse. We mentioned it back then, but Adira made the right choice in fighting back without calling to, or mentioning, her daughter. Knowing what we do now, that may well have saved Maeve's life.

Now... Assuming Adira and Maeve make it out of whatever shenanigans they're respectively stuck in, and can return to the tavern, having Stoney around seems like it could go either way, honestly. We've seen Stoney's reactions to some generic social situations, so aside from his clear and obvious protective and combat abilities, he seems more like a trained dog when it comes to interactions. He makes pretty much one sound aside from the roar, pounces, and even Trace seemed to talk to him like a child who should have known better, or even a trained dog.

Having a creature like that protect a child would be a strong deterrent, but would such a creature be able to make a rational decision regarding drunken barflies? The line between 'civil discussion' and 'all-out brawl' can be deceptively thin, and very hard to see coming without a tavern owner's level of experience with drunks. Adira's almost certainly skilled enough to give a drunk the little shoulder-tap right before things turn awry, but even IF she could teach that skill to Stoney, I highly doubt any normal belligerent drunk would respond rationally when they turn around to see a 6'12" sentient stone lizard smiling at them. Especially if they were about to start a fight. He'd probably scare more customers than he'd protect, at least for the first few months. If not years.
Did we ever got confirmation the attack came through rift wall? I think the "guards" just made that up as an excuse to apprehend Adira. From what I remember the portal has been non operational for quite some time.
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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#18 Post by Tornir »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:53 am Did we ever got confirmation the attack came through rift wall? I think the "guards" just made that up as an excuse to apprehend Adira. From what I remember the portal has been non operational for quite some time.
Checking back on stuff, it seems that they could be real Edinmere guards.
Just after Adira left to find Maeve, the riftwall started to do... something.
Up at the manor, Reni said she'd pulled the memories of the attack's execution from the unconscious Brutus. This was before they all left on the Zen rescue mission, from which Reni didn't return with the others, and went off to do other things. Could that have included making a report of what she'd discovered to the guard?
When Adira was taken, Maeve was outside observing the effects of the Detritus takeover up at the manor. The layout implies she saw the guards arrive, and her Mom's arrest, because she shouted, so the guards will know she's there. We just don't know if she went with Adira, was left alone at the tavern, or something else.

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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#19 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Tornir wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:16 am
Technic[Bot] wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:53 am Did we ever got confirmation the attack came through rift wall? I think the "guards" just made that up as an excuse to apprehend Adira. From what I remember the portal has been non operational for quite some time.
Checking back on stuff, it seems that they could be real Edinmere guards.
Just after Adira left to find Maeve, the riftwall started to do... something.
Up at the manor, Reni said she'd pulled the memories of the attack's execution from the unconscious Brutus. This was before they all left on the Zen rescue mission, from which Reni didn't return with the others, and went off to do other things. Could that have included making a report of what she'd discovered to the guard?
When Adira was taken, Maeve was outside observing the effects of the Detritus takeover up at the manor. The layout implies she saw the guards arrive, and her Mom's arrest, because she shouted, so the guards will know she's there. We just don't know if she went with Adira, was left alone at the tavern, or something else.
If i remember correctly the fake templars simply teleported away when the attack finished. So not convinced they come from the Riftwall. But indeed we do not know what is with the riftwall at the moment, it is clearly more active than Adira thinks.
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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#20 Post by Tornir »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:12 am If i remember correctly the fake templars simply teleported away when the attack finished. So not convinced they come from the Riftwall. But indeed we do not know what is with the riftwall at the moment, it is clearly more active than Adira thinks.
There was that report of wolves near Riftwall that Lt. Reed never got the chance to investigate before the attack, hinting they at least approached from that direction.
I'm headcanoning teleportation as a visulization-based magic; if you've been to a location before (or there's a magical waypoint placed there you can lock on to (but that may be detectable)) then you can teleport to it, otherwise you gotta walk.
The Edinmere attackers may have been in sight of the town wall from the outside before they teleported onto it, when they left, they could have gone straight home. The riftwall would also have been a great way to extract all the escapees from the wolf pens; I'm assuming that like the Legacy estate, the pens were set up to block teleportation.

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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#21 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Tornir wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:23 am
Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:12 am If i remember correctly the fake templars simply teleported away when the attack finished. So not convinced they come from the Riftwall. But indeed we do not know what is with the riftwall at the moment, it is clearly more active than Adira thinks.
There was that report of wolves near Riftwall that Lt. Reed never got the chance to investigate before the attack, hinting they at least approached from that direction.
I'm headcanoning teleportation as a visulization-based magic; if you've been to a location before (or there's a magical waypoint placed there you can lock on to (but that may be detectable)) then you can teleport to it, otherwise you gotta walk.
The Edinmere attackers may have been in sight of the town wall from the outside before they teleported onto it, when they left, they could have gone straight home. The riftwall would also have been a great way to extract all the escapees from the wolf pens; I'm assuming that like the Legacy estate, the pens were set up to block teleportation.
That is true, really need to reread at least the two last chapter at some point, with the way the comic is published is really easy to miss these details. It has been really hinted that something, has been coming out of the Riftwall without Adira knowledge. May have been Clovis and Co, or something else...
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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#22 Post by Tornir »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:52 pm That is true, really need to reread at least the two last chapter at some point, with the way the comic is published is really easy to miss these details.
The offline archives are still being actively updated. It's easier to review stuff if you can scroll back and forth through a chapter when composing a reply.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:52 pm It has been really hinted that something, has been coming out of the Riftwall without Adira knowledge. May have been Clovis and Co, or something else...
Use it as a crossover plot device to bring Florence and Winston over? They'd fit right in... :mrgrin:

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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#23 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Tornir wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:46 pm
Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:52 pm That is true, really need to reread at least the two last chapter at some point, with the way the comic is published is really easy to miss these details.
The offline archives are still being actively updated. It's easier to review stuff if you can scroll back and forth through a chapter when composing a reply.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 4:52 pm It has been really hinted that something, has been coming out of the Riftwall without Adira knowledge. May have been Clovis and Co, or something else...
Use it as a crossover plot device to bring Florence and Winston over? They'd fit right in... :mrgrin:
I usually read the comic, and the forum on my phone, so lest just say i would not like to keep the entire comic on my phone SD nor on my computer HDD for that matter. Also you probably already know about it but the Search engine by Amenon is very usefull when looking for somethign in particular.

Also risking derailing this thread, Who?
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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#24 Post by Tornir »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 6:18 pm Also risking derailing this thread, Who?
Florence and Winston from Freefall.

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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#25 Post by Thomas Rot »

Tornir wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:16 am Up at the manor, Reni said she'd pulled the memories of the attack's execution from the unconscious Brutus. This was before they all left on the Zen rescue mission, from which Reni didn't return with the others, and went off to do other things. Could that have included making a report of what she'd discovered to the guard?
She's obviously a stickler for this kind of thing, so she most likely did exactly that. But given that, it still takes at least a full day, certainly a bit longer (the Zen rescue was in the morning; Adira was apprehended next day in the afternoon) for the authorities to start “investigating”, as the guard put it.

So either bureaucracy never changed, or it becomes more relevant that for a second time the portal's activation in advance of a wolf crossing is conveniently timed to the act of removing Adira from the premises. They might be real guards, but that alone makes their story and timing pretty suspect.
Tornir wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:16 am When Adira was taken, Maeve was outside observing the effects of the Detritus takeover up at the manor. The layout implies she saw the guards arrive, and her Mom's arrest, because she shouted, so the guards will know she's there. We just don't know if she went with Adira, was left alone at the tavern, or something else.
Maeve was probably not outside — unless Tom goofed up the art, the wooden paneling behind her is consistent with the indoor paneling rather than the wood panels we can see on the outside of the tavern. Judging from the POV of the guard's panel she was probably upstairs looking out of the window facing the road. And it just so happens that the bowl Adira was holding rather conveniently smashed at the same moment Maeve shouted. Sure, there are far more prosaic reasons for that kind of coincidence; but the way it is presented it seems pretty safe to say the guard did not hear Maeve, who is after all one floor up, indoors, and not the object of his attention.

In any case, Maeve being Maeve and a pretty smart kid, she probably knows enough to stay put and stay out of the danger her mother is in. She was looking at Trace's estate at the top of the page and that will certainly become relevant later on.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 3:12 am If i remember correctly the fake templars simply teleported away when the attack finished. So not convinced they come from the Riftwall. But indeed we do not know what is with the riftwall at the moment, it is clearly more active than Adira thinks.
Well, we know the fake Templar in the middle was Clovis, and he obviously didn't teleport very far — he did meet Brahn right afterward. My going theory is something like this:

- The wolves who attacked the town (linked to Clovis and pals) originally emerged from the Riftwall sometime during chapter 18. Why did the portal activate immediately after Adira left to retrieve Maeve, and particularly after she passed it on her way out? There were wolves waiting on the other side for the coast to clear before coming out.

- They hang around in the area during the events of chapters 19 and 20. Roan (the third fake Templar) and Sam get transmogrified. Clovis finds out about this while planning to retrieve Brutus. He and the twins show up outside the mansion during the beach party. The portal is not shown to reactivate again until after this, when Adira gets arrested. At no point are either Adira or Maeve aware of any of this. (Neither of them noticed that the rift had activated in their absence – so unless it automatically deactivates after someone passes through it, one of the wolves would have had to go back and deactivate it before either of them returned from the town square. There is time for this to happen, after all.)

- The portal has reactivated by the time Clovis breaks in, to take advantage of the sweet worldwide expedited shipping service it provides, and he knows about it. We know Sam went through it. There was a bit of a back and forth about whether the magic shackles could teleport people and to what distance, so Zen may have been factored into the Riftwall part of the plan too but we wouldn't know either way (since Clovis found out about Zen’s presence at the manor at close to the same time he must have found out about Sam and Roan, who also needed the transport). I tend to think, though, that since all those wolves from the Wolfpens needed to go somewhere the portal would have been in use in any case.

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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#26 Post by Tornir »

Thomas Rot wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:20 pm Why did the portal activate immediately after Adira left to retrieve Maeve, and particularly after she passed it on her way out? There were wolves waiting on the other side for the coast to clear before coming out.
The riftwall isn't deactivated, that would show the wood panelling of the wall, it's dark. I think what we're looking at from this side is some sort of magical one-way glass, and yes, the wolves are watching. Adira mentions shapes and whispering in it, so I guess it's not perfectly isolating? The barrier can likely be taken down by those who know how it 's constructed, but I expect there's a wolf on the other side capable of operating it if a friendly approaches.

The Edinmere attack was time constrained; it needed to catch the tiger delegation in the town, so it's possible Adira's necessary pursuit of Maeve was a convenient plot device to get her out of the way and stop her being removed from the storyline by the incoming wolves. Her arrest may be another one, if that last panel is indeed showing another opening...
Who would want/need to come/go through though? I'd assumed the internees were safely away yesterday, and they'd already taken Sam the Cow back through the rift.
Clovis is still in the dungeon fighting Reni (last we saw), so either something new is happening, or the opportunistic guild members are just coming in to nick the tavern's ale?

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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#27 Post by DragnMastralex »

And just like that Detritus was gone without a Trace.

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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#28 Post by Technic[Bot] »

Tornir wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 2:40 pm
Thomas Rot wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:20 pm Why did the portal activate immediately after Adira left to retrieve Maeve, and particularly after she passed it on her way out? There were wolves waiting on the other side for the coast to clear before coming out.
The riftwall isn't deactivated, that would show the wood panelling of the wall, it's dark. I think what we're looking at from this side is some sort of magical one-way glass, and yes, the wolves are watching. Adira mentions shapes and whispering in it, so I guess it's not perfectly isolating? The barrier can likely be taken down by those who know how it 's constructed, but I expect there's a wolf on the other side capable of operating it if a friendly approaches.

The Edinmere attack was time constrained; it needed to catch the tiger delegation in the town, so it's possible Adira's necessary pursuit of Maeve was a convenient plot device to get her out of the way and stop her being removed from the storyline by the incoming wolves. Her arrest may be another one, if that last panel is indeed showing another opening...
Who would want/need to come/go through though? I'd assumed the internees were safely away yesterday, and they'd already taken Sam the Cow back through the rift.
Clovis is still in the dungeon fighting Reni (last we saw), so either something new is happening, or the opportunistic guild members are just coming in to nick the tavern's ale?
When he said rift i picture just some random teleportation rift outside the state, Reni has shown those things exists. But make sense they have been smuggling personell directly through the RiftWall since that think seems to provide long rage teleportation something only a very mad raine has been capable of, An as you point out, it has been subtly hinted they are coming through there.

Also have we been told what happened to the captive wolves? Seemed like and important plot point but seems handwaved away due to the more important matters necromancy rituals happening in the state.
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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#29 Post by Tornir »

Technic[Bot] wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:36 pm When he said rift i picture just some random teleportation rift outside the state, Reni has shown those things exists. But make sense they have been smuggling personell directly through the RiftWall since that think seems to provide long rage teleportation something only a very mad raine has been capable of, An as you point out, it has been subtly hinted they are coming through there.
Hmmm... If you mean the one opened with her gate key, they're single ended, but not random. Also, the operational constraints those things have render them unsuitable for the rapid, repeated, multi-person usage the wolves seem to require.
Technic[Bot] wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:36 pm Also have we been told what happened to the captive wolves? Seemed like and important plot point but seems handwaved away due to the more important matters necromancy rituals happening in the state.
Well, if they'd been liberated by the real wolven army, they'd now be free back in wolf territory.
Since it was Clovis's guild that freed them, I did think they'd be added to the long list of people that Owe Clovis A Favor, and put to work.
However, after further thought, I'm considering the possibility they may be dead.

The wolven government/military don't yet know they're now at war with the tigers. When they do find out they're going to want to know WTF happened, and who's responsible. After they discover it's because wolves disguised as templar attacked the tigers (and (intentionally) got found out), while using that as a distraction to liberate all the internees, they're going to wonder where all those liberated wolves are. If there's no one left around to befound and questioned, Clovis doesn't get the wolven govt/army after him.
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Re: Comic for September 11, 2021: Detritus vs Stone pt3

#30 Post by Warrl »

I submit the possibility that the riftwall was never actually deactivated.

Instead it was barred on the other side - or if that isn't possible, a second door was installed over it and that was barred.

Then a hallway was built leading to it, with a door at the far end. And no windows. A group of wolves could enter this hallway, close the door behind them, then unbar the rift and pass through - without ever letting light shine through from the wolven side. So they can go through freely (although they really should be QUIET) when it's early in the morning in Edinmire.

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