Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#16 Post by tony1695 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:34 am

Tendo wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:25 am
tony1695 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:01 am
A thing to note is that Trace, as Grand Templar, would have been a High Value Target for assassination. He falls, the Templars fall to infighting for who gets to replace him. Just teleporting them away or straight-up killing doesn't send a strong enough message. Turning what was once a thinking, feeling being (human or Keidran) into a dumb farm animal, though?
Well, that's another thing, it hasen't been made clear if their minds have been also turned into an animal or not, or if they are still themselves mentally.
And that's where the horror lies. One moment, you're trying to break into the fancy manor to steal all the silverware, the next you find yourself in a chicken coop. You try to communicate that this isn't right, that you're a human and not a chicken, that you need help, and everyone ignores you. Maybe they even laugh at the chicken acting odd.
Trace's estate might be the only place where the livestock commit suicide.
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#17 Post by HSishi » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:39 am

I wouldn't be surprised if intruders are converted to lifestock happens often. Manors usually have valuables (cash, precious things, documents) which lure lots of burglars in.
Also, this manor has a keidran servant which is already a target for radical templars. And now there's a wolven city attacker in there, not to mention the keidrans and wolves in Trace's group.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#18 Post by Dreamfox » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:56 am

I agree that Brahn would have warned them about this. Also as Rose mentions, their timing is very convenient.
My guess? Reni just go two more wolves to question. Well, not wolves anymore... we'll see.

From Rose's reaction it at least looks like intruders are not getting butchered. BTW, no one said anything about the intruders getting turned into nonintelligent animals. Remebering the guy that got turned into a mare by Nora, I can't help but think that it wouldn't be much of a punishment if he didn't know what happens to him.
Here? While this is an excellent defense, you can't read their mind if they are normal animals and changing them back just to question them seems needlessy complicated. That also makes it necessary to check up on them. If they flee (in panic or not) they might run into a real fox, wolf or other predator. Not to mention a local farmer.

This is the second time Tom surprised me with a magic application I haven't seen like this before. The teleporting intruders away, yes, the transformation, no.
BTW, this probably explains the teleporting table. Trace won't always be around so I'm guessing the store room is outside the protective spell's perimeter so there is no problem with restocking everything. That probably means the list on the table is enchanted as well so it's always up to date.

And yes, as effective it is, this kind of magical defense is very, very creepy.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#19 Post by CrRAR » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:36 pm

Dadrobit wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:55 am
Tendo wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:55 am
Dadrobit wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:23 am
The spell operates on intent of the intruder and the relative judgement of Trace. If he wouldn't let you in, you get transmogrified. This is honestly pretty dark if you think back to what his temperament was while he was Hitler and the potential of innocents becoming farm animals. It brings up some seriously scary implications even to present.
I suppose that depends on if the transformation is permanent, or if it's not what causes it to be reversed. Rose seemed shockingly nonchalant about it if it is indeed permanent or as dark as people implied, unless she hates the Templar that much.
(Side Note: Anyone else reminded of Home Alone? I'd like to think that Beard Man was based on Daniel Stern and their failed entry was a cute reference considering the time of year, but we don't get to see his cohort so I dunno, it could be totally coincidental)
So the next step (literally) would have been an iron to the face? R-right? :mrgrin:
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#20 Post by FishWeave » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:26 pm

I hear people saying how the defense has dark implications, but I don't really see it that way. It keeps Traces home and servant both safe, and it gives use to intruders. Why should anyone be allowed in your house without permission? It only reacts the way it does when you don't have permission to enter from the owner. This may have also been done to not include his servants permission as people like those two humans could try to pressure her to allow them to enter. They can't even attempt to bully or threaten her- or rather the could try but it's all empty.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#21 Post by Menke » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:30 pm

I think those assuming that this spell must be permenant or else more people would know about it are forgetting about the inherent limits to communication in this world, and the embarrassment factor.

The internet does not exist in this world. So any knowledge of Trace's security systems would have to be through word of mouth.

This means that it would be impossible for someone to anonymously warn people about the security.

This means burglars, assassins, or anyone else who had underhanded reasons for invading the estate would not advertise they were trying to do so. They would 'serve their time' as an animal and then get the hell away from that place as fast as possible.

Those who were sent there by a boss of some sort might neglect to return, hoping to avoid punishment for failing by making their employer assume they were killed.

And finally, even those who would return to their former lives would likely not speak about the incident because it's so humiliating. If you were laying eggs at an estate for a month or so, would you tell all your buddies about it? Probably not!

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#22 Post by Zakkerus » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:44 pm

So, from the way Rose reacted and from what she said, this has definitely happened many times before. But I have a bad feeling that it has also happened with good or neutral/innocent people too. You know, people trying to revolt against evil Trace by breaking into his mansion, and then they're either instantly reduced in sentience and form, or they retain the same sentience, and are trapped in another, lesser form where "they must scream, but have no mouth" (in a sense) when they walk in. I mean, we know that past Trace was a heartless and evil monster who loved murdering kids, so it's not too far fetched.

It's just a thought that unfortunately popped up in my head when I read the page. :potatoes:

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#23 Post by Combak » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:54 pm

You know, I came on to add a reply to this as soon as I saw it, but I think everyone here has just about covered it everything I was going to say so...
Awesome (and funny!) page!

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#24 Post by multilis » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:51 pm

We have seen Nora stay intelligent when she turned into an animal. I suspect the chickens aren't brainless, though they now have chicken like instincts and cravings. Nora or a strong mage could turn them back.

Rose could have spelled out her warning better but I think preferred not to... they were warned they didn't listen so they can't blame her... but at same time one would expect either a bluff or a simple barrier so most would ignore the warning.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#25 Post by Candycat » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:41 pm

That's an intense security system. But doesn't this mean that Rose is always all alone in that manor? I wonder who else has permission, besides Nora. I guess this also means Trace saved everyone unknowingly by inviting everyone to his place.
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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#26 Post by Paatsama » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:55 pm

Dadrobit wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:23 am
This is honestly pretty dark if you think back
In my opinion, this is honestly pretty dark any way you look at it. I was reminded of Wilhelm Hauff’s fairy tales as well as the darkest moments of "Ozma of Oz" by L. Frank Baum.

Dadrobit wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:55 am
The alternative that I could maybe see is the spell lasting only a period of time, followed by a memory wipe (and a gnarly headache).
My current theory is that the effect of the spell is neither irreversible nor fixed-term. The effect lasts until Nora reverses it, and Nora reverses it when Trace considers the time appropriate. Too bad if Nora is going to sleep for a long time. (In earlier times: too bad if Trace saw little gain in ever having somebody’s spell reversed.)

I am very curious to see if we’ll learn more or if the author prefers to leave us guessing. Oh, and Menke, you make a lot of sense. Still, people are surprisingly bad at keeping their mouths shut in the long term.

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We do, sometimes, need reminders that despite Tom's bright colors and cheerfully anime-esque art style, Mekkan is an awful place to live. (...) This is a place where racism isn't even seen as a problem in general, where assassin is a respectable job title, and where not listening to the polite, matronly red-head can get you turned into livestock.
While I largely agree with you (and Andre), I’d like to point out that Mekkan does not differ from our world all that much. It is all about where you live and what you do, and in which century and decade.

I sincerely believe that many ordinary Basitin, just to give an example, find their everyday lives more secure and predictable than I find mine. On the other hand, most areas of the main continent that we know about seem to resemble our Europe, Africa and America as they were roughly between 1600 and 1850. Of course magic adds a good deal to the horrors for the less fortunate, but on the other hand, no faction appears to be technically capable of atrocities comparable to our XX century in scale. At least not yet. I wonder how bad Trace’s plan to break the Basitin society could have gotten.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#27 Post by MaverickMopete » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:09 pm

Zakkerus wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:44 pm
So, from the way Rose reacted and from what she said, this has definitely happened many times before. But I have a bad feeling that it has also happened with good or neutral/innocent people too. You know, people trying to revolt against evil Trace by breaking into his mansion, and then they're either instantly reduced in sentience and form, or they retain the same sentience, and are trapped in another, lesser form where "they must scream, but have no mouth" (in a sense) when they walk in. I mean, we know that past Trace was a heartless and evil monster who loved murdering kids, so it's not too far fetched.

It's just a thought that unfortunately popped up in my head when I read the page. :potatoes:
Yes, but good or neutral/innocent people are more likely to heed Rose's warning that they cannot enter the manor without Trace's permission, and will leave without causing trouble or getting turned into anything... natural.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#28 Post by Zakkerus » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:14 pm

MaverickMopete wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:09 pm
Zakkerus wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:44 pm
So, from the way Rose reacted and from what she said, this has definitely happened many times before. But I have a bad feeling that it has also happened with good or neutral/innocent people too. You know, people trying to revolt against evil Trace by breaking into his mansion, and then they're either instantly reduced in sentience and form, or they retain the same sentience, and are trapped in another, lesser form where "they must scream, but have no mouth" (in a sense) when they walk in. I mean, we know that past Trace was a heartless and evil monster who loved murdering kids, so it's not too far fetched.

It's just a thought that unfortunately popped up in my head when I read the page. :potatoes:
Yes, but good or neutral/innocent people are more likely to heed Rose's warning that they cannot enter the manor without Trace's permission, and will leave without causing trouble or getting turned into anything... natural.
I was talking about the point in time when Trace went on his Keidran murdering spree.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#29 Post by Cpt.Obvious » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:24 pm

The spell might not be permanent, but I doubt many potential intruders ever leave the mansion knowing what happened. What happens may depend on who they are and why they intruded. Hardened criminals might just disappear, while kids from the village doing it on a dare might turn up somewhere in the neighborhood lacking memory of the time they were missing and having a strange craving for worms...

Now what happens to those never seen again is another question. I wouldn't be surprised if a some of them ended up in the larder, but even without going that dark they could just be left to live out the rest of their lives in the chicken coop or pig sty. These animals doesn't live that long, and I doubt they get enough intruders that it would get crowded. And that's if they don't find some way to kill them selves. And yes, I think they retain their minds, to a degree, so they know they used to be keidran or human. I base this on two ideas, one being the ability to interrogate them, and the other being that Mad Trace wasn't a particularly nice person, especially not to anyone daring to threaten him, his family or friends.

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Re: Comic for December 7, 2017: Manor Defenses

#30 Post by amenon » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:34 pm

Tendo wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:25 am
Dadrobit wrote:And I could easily see Rose detesting them and becoming desensitized to horror; she literally lived with the dude who massacred untold thousands of her kind and furthered the adoption of harsher slavery laws in his reign.
Yes, I thought about is Rose was just desensitized to it, but from how she acted previously, she seemed to act far too nonchalant about it for a spell that permanently turns people into brainless livestock, especially with how it's implied this happens often.
I think she might actually be being adversarial here, especially considering her line about convenience. I don't think this is the behavior of someone genuinely trying to deter them, it's more like plausible deniability / malicious compliance. I would assume that that's because she decided they were enemies, rather than apathy.

It would help to know if it was her that opened the door. I think it was, but I don't see any clear indication either way.

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